Getting contractor to put right illegal work

[nervous123]

Following my post here //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=247526&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight= where I discovered (thanks to this great forum, no thanks to my contractor), that he had used illegal unregistered worker/s to fit my unvented cylinder, (also discovered other illegal work with boiler since then - no sleeving for the boiler gas flow pipe running through plaster), I believe I've got a chance of getting him pay for the rectification work.

Basically, I threatened to report him to LABC/GS/Trading Standards, he offered me his own GS-reg plumber to rectify it - which of course I refused (seeing as he had no qualms with using an unregistered fellow in the first place), now I've got a fellow in (who I found on the GS site) to start on the remedial work. He's charging me about £700 for 2 days labour and materials, inhibitor, Spirotech filter and wireless thermostat (see below).

Sent contractor the estimate and he's said he wants to sit down and discuss it as he thinks it's 'highly inflated'. (Bear in mind that he charged me £7.5k in the first place, for labour alone, to remove old boiler and tank and fit new boiler, cylinder and piping!).

Obviously I will demand payment from contractor for all work to get cylinder and boiler to GS standard from a safety perspective. But am I also entitled to claim for:

1. inhibitor (which they never originally put in),
2. supply and fit a spirotech filter (as they never powerflushed or cleaned out system before fitting boiler)
3. supply and fit new wireless thermostat (yes-they even managed to cock this up - they put the thermostat on wall right next to the boiler!!) and we have been advised easiest thing to do is get wireless thermstat.

Are these very basic and essential mistakes/ommissions that should have been done initially by contractor? If yes, then I'll be comfortable with including them. Please advise!

 

[Agile]

You are a customer from hell!

Yes, I agree that your contractor did some things wrong but he has offered to put it right using qualified poeople but you have refused! Thats not fair in my view!

You have then obtained an over inflated quotation from someone! It would not surprise me if the £700 man was giving you a backhander!

You dont say where you are but I feel inclined to call your bluff and offer to do any remedial works for about £180 plus materials!

Tony

 

[big-all]

you have greatly reduced your hand you have broken your contract

you must allow several chances to fix any problems
there is a procedure to go through to do it correctly you have not chosen that route

you do off course have my sympathy assuming everything you say is accurate

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

If what your saying is all true -

I don't agree with the rest, he's been using "illegal" workers which takes the p**s out of the rest of us who go to the "time and expense" of being legit, NAIL THE B*****D.

 

[nervous123]

Tony,
Would you trust a contractor, who initially has clearly used an unregistered plumber to incorrectly install an unvented cylinder without any qualms, then says 'he'll bring his own registered plumber'??

I spent some time bringing in 3 separate engineers, who I researched myself and am satisfied that they are suitably qualified; and I don't see why I need to spend more time checking this allegedly registered plumber out!

I highly doubt he even has an unvented ticket seeing as my contractor has repeatedly referred to 'the boiler' in all correspondence and does not seem to understand that the bulk of the problem lies with the cylinder installation!

TBH, I really don't understand why you have sided with someone who has given your profession a bad name, and has acted with bad grace throughout. It was only after I threatened to report him that he admitted his fault - and even then he had the audacity to write 'Stop blaming me, I am not a plumber as you know, so the work is not mine!'

Anyway, I got 3 quotes. This was the cheapest and TBH I'm quite surprised you think it's so high. To break it down:

2 days labour + piping + frost thermostat + Honeywell motorised valve £55 S+F = £415.

He estimates further costs as: Spirotech say £100 + Inhibitor say £15 + Wireless thermostat CM927 £100 + Fit wireless thermostat £50 = £265

This, then, was the crux of my email: Am I entitled to claim the second group of costs as well, as they are not strictly necessary for the safety of the installation, but for its correct operation? It was his workers who fitted the thermostat in the wrong place, and it was his workers who did not flush out the rads before installing the boiler...
----
NB. Aside from all the above, even if the price was inflated, which I dont believe it is, there is the distinct irony of a contractor using unqualified unregistered workers to install a system illegally for £7.5k excl boiler and cylinder, and then bleating about highly inflated prices!

 

[Stingray13]

I do agree with you, but the problem is where your rights stand legally, he is entitled to put them right, using who he likes as long as they are legally allowed to do the work.

Your only choice as far as i can see, is to let his qualified plumber do it but ask to see his Gas Safe Card for any gas work (my GS card also has my G3 listed but i also have a seperate G3 qualification card and his unvented G3 card (i believe all now issue them)

i think it would also be reasonable to ask for proof of insurance and get them to fill out benchmarks before they leave and also chase notification.
if they refuse to show these things, then you can refuse to let them do the work untill you see them.

As both are legal requirements, other than that i dont know what else you can do

 

[Stingray13]

This, then, was the crux of my email: Am I entitled to claim the second group of costs as well, as they are not strictly necessary for the safety of the installation, but for its correct operation? It was his workers who fitted the thermostat in the wrong place, and it was his workers who did not flush out the rads before installing the boiler...

Thermostat, they can reposistion the exsisting one to a correct location probably be cheaper than £150 not easier but cheaper so a little unreasonable a few meters of cable. for £150 and hours labour?

As for not flushing or inhibitor, how do you know they didn't do these?
Did they hot flush?
Was flushing quoted for?

 

[nervous123]

1. So how much would a sensible cost be to reposition the existing thermostat?

2. They did not flush; it was not quoted for. What I want to know is, should flushing and inhibitor have been included as standard with the job, and therefore I can claim for them, or are they optional extras, and therefore I can't.

{I have problems with dropping pressure which I have been informed could be due to the lack of inhibitor/flushing... }

 

[Stingray13]

Sorry i don't want to sound agressive but i have to ask

1. HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY DIDN'T FLUSH?
2. is this all new pipework, or installed on an exisiting system?
3. how do you know there was no inhibitor added?

as for the cost of the wired thermostat depends how easy it can be extended how the wire will run etc i can't see if the floors are easy to get acccess to it won't be hard to do. but i can't see it?

What boiler has been installed?

 

[nervous123]

1. Remember contractor saying they haven't. Besides, I popped in almost every day, never saw them flushing.
2. Quote was to ''replace where necessary'' which I presume to mean mostly new pipework but some old.
3. I received an itemised bill for all extra materials and this was not on it.

Boiler is Vaillant Ecotec 630 plus condensing

 

[Stingray13]

1. Remember contractor saying they haven't. Besides, I popped in almost every day, never saw them flushing.
2. Quote was to ''replace where necessary'' which I presume to mean mostly new pipework but some old.
3. I received an itemised bill for all extra materials and this was not on it.

Boiler is Vaillant Ecotec 630 plus condensing

1. Well if it was mostly new pipework wouldn't need flushing if new radiators where being fitted would only need a hot flush takes 2 hours, could of easily been missed, this one is going to be hard to prove.. as there is no RULE/LAW requiring a powerflush machine just that was flushed inline with standards.
2. Ok i am assuming due to price new radiators throughout, so it would only of needed a hot flush.
3. But i would expect it to be included in the cost of the installation stuff, and they could of used one from the Van rather than brought a new one. These both don't prove it wasn't in there.
Additionally if you had to pay for extra materials, they didn't charge you for an inhibitor and you where expecting to be charged why would you want them to pay now when you didn't pay in the first place diffrent if they charged you for it and never used it but to not use and not charge ?

As for your losing pressure this has nothing to do with any lack of flushing (powerflushing which is what i think your talking about) or inhibitor your losing pressure due to a leak on the exisiting or new pipe work or expansion vessel is not correctly charged.

 

[nervous123]

Tony/Agile - just seen your post here - So I'll charge him for it. Thanks!

 

[nervous123]

2. Ok i am assuming due to price new radiators throughout, so it would only of needed a hot flush.

Sorry, but your assumption's wrong. Of my 12 rads only 4 are new. The rest are years old. Property used to be rented to tenants and former owner never put a penny into it...was decrepit when we bought it

Additionally if you had to pay for extra materials, they didn't charge you for an inhibitor and you where expecting to be charged why would you want them to pay now when you didn't pay in the first place diffrent if they charged you for it and never used it but to not use and not charge ?

Er...you've gone clean over my head there

As for your losing pressure this has nothing to do with any lack of flushing (powerflushing which is what i think your talking about) or inhibitor your losing pressure due to a leak on the exisiting or new pipe work or expansion vessel is not correctly charged.

Okay, but see below a response to another of my posts on this site:

Radiators on a pressurised system filling up with air? I don't think so.That is a sign of gassing which would be caused by no inhibitor and no powerflush.

 

[Stingray13]

Ok i would of powerflushed it and charged you extra for it, but the minuimum requirement is still only a hot flush, which could of been done.

I am not trying to be unjustifiably akwarard here i am just trying to bring to your attention it is not easy to prove or disprove your speculation.

I would hope its been flushed in which case a nothing can be done if it hasnt a flush needs to be done, not a magnetic filter added your respecing your system for best practice when thats could of not of been what was quoted for.

 

[Stingray13]

I received an itemised bill for all extra materials and this was not on it.

You where billed for all extra materials, and no inhibitor was on there?

Did you then pay them these extra materials? - If so you never paid for it so why would they then pay for something you never payed for?

They could of used one out of the van (van Stock)

Did they charge you for every washer, fitting and other item on that list? if not could of been included in the original price?