Ginger men who now identifies as a woman.

[JohnD]

The police have no record of men pretending to be women, entering women only spaces in order to commit sexual crimes.

Perhaps you seek to pretend that men dressed as women do not demand access to women's lavatories and changing rooms, which is what I said.

Obviously you will not deny that male sex criminals seek to get into women's prisons.

 

[King Billy]

Obviously you will not deny that male sex criminals seek to get into women's prisons.

Of course I do not deny actual cases exist of male sex criminals wanting to get into women's prisons. The few that have happened are well documented. As you say they are "male sex criminals" who pretend to be transgender in order to gain access to women's spaces, to continue their crimes.
They're just like many other sorts of criminals. shoplifters pretending to be shoppers, pickpockets pretending to be commuters, scammers pretending to be lonely people in search of love, 'kind' priests abusing minors, meter readers/charity collectors to commit robbery, etc. Practically every sort of crime is committed under some pretence or other.
Criminals do that. They pretend to be what they're not to exploit the weakness of society to commit their crimes.
We don't deny that the vast majority of commuters are genuine, or that the vast majority of shoppers are genuine, that meter readers/charity collectors are genuine, or assume priests are safe around children, etc.

But that is no excuse to deny that transgenders are genuine, that intersex babies are being born all the time, and that intersex people exist, and that some of them have been assigned the wrong label on their birth certificate, giving rise to some of them adopting a different gender.

You still insist on conflating criminals with transgenders to camouflage and justify your bigotry.
You could stop doing that very easily by accepting that intersex people exist, (medical science proves it|) and accept that the vast majority of transgenders are genuine, honest people, not the criminals that you persist in conflating them with.

But your religiously inspired belief prevents you from accepting that sex is not binary or that transgenders exist, based on being assigned the wrong label at birth.

 

[JohnD]

The few that have happened are well documented.

You mean, you know about the few that are well documented.

How many men pretending to be women tried to get into women's prisons?

You don't know.


How many men pretending to be women tried to get into women's refuges?

You don't know.


How many men pretending to be women tried to get into women's changing rooms?

You don't know.


How many men pretending to be women tried to get into women's lavatories?

You don't know.

 

[King Billy]

You mean, you know about the few that are well documented.

How many men pretending to be women tried to get into women's prisons?

You don't know.


How many men pretending to be women tried to get into women's refuges?

You don't know.


How many men pretending to be women tried to get into women's changing rooms?

You don't know.


How many men pretending to be women tried to get into women's lavatories?

You don't know.

Your questions are predicated on denying the existence of genuine transgenders.
That's been your whole motivation throughout this discussion.

You've repeatedly refused to answer my question: "Do you accept that intersex babies and people exist, and that genuine transgenders exist?"
You don't have the courage to stand by your conviction.

In order to avoid answering my question and disproving your bigotry, you've resorted to ad hominem attacks, strawmen arguments, and you've now pitched your own questions, and answered those questions yourself, claiming to be on my behalf.

You refuse to admit that intersex babies are born and intersex people exist, because your religiously inspired belief in binary sex prevents you.

In order to avoid admitting to your bigotry, you throw up this anti-trans activist argument about all transwomen are men pretending to be women. Yet you admit that there have only been a few well documented examples of male sex criminals pretending to be transwomen in order to access women's prisons to continue committing offences.

Until you can accept medical science, that intersex babies and people exist, you are incapable of contributing to an intelligent discussion about transgenders because all you are spouting is your religiously inspired bigotry denying the existence of intersex babies and people.
You're like a religious fanatic discussing the existence of God, using the circular argument that God exists because the book written by God tell us he exists.
Until you open your mind, you comments are pure bigoted denials of the existence of intersex and transgenders.

 

[JohnD]

Your questions are predicated on denying the existence of genuine transgenders.

Wrong.

They are based on the fact that there are men who pretend to be women, and demand access to women's changing rooms, lavatories and other reserved spaces.

I can see why you pretend otherwise, because you find it an awkward fact.

But if remains true.

 

[King Billy]

Wrong.

They are based on the fact that there are men who pretend to be women, and demand access to women's changing rooms, lavatories and other reserved spaces.

I can see why you pretend otherwise, because you find it an awkward fact.

But if remains true.

Your religious fanaticism preventing you from accepting that intersex and transgenders exist shows through in every post you've ever made on this issue.
You were offered the opportunity to prove me wrong when I said you refuse to accept the existence of intersex babies and people, and you accused me of being a liar.
But even then, and still, your religious fanaticism wouldn't let you prove me wrong by your acceptance of the existence of intersex babies and people.
You continue to conflate transgenders with criminals. You continue to deny the existence of transwomen, describing them as men pretending to be women. Strangely enough you have no such concern with transmen. Funny that.

Despite the overwhelming evidence of intersex babies being born, you prefer your religious dogma over medical science.
Until you can accept the existence of intersex your argument will be pure bigotry and no meaningful contribution to a sensitive and topical discussion.

 

[Highway Man]

• Legal Position: The Equality Act 2010 allows providers to offer single-sex facilities. Following Supreme Court rulings, "sex" in this context refers to biological sex, meaning trans women (biological males) can be restricted from women-only spaces.
• Trespass and Conduct: If a man enters a women’s toilet and is asked to leave by the provider/owner, refusal to leave is a criminal offense (trespass) under the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994.

Exclusions: Public, private, and workplace providers (e.g., shops, hospitals, gyms) can legally enforce single-sex policies, restricting access to biological women only.

 

[JohnD]

Your religious fanaticism

Poor Billy is off his head.

He thinks I am a religious fanatic.

Complete fabrication.

I simply object to men, who pretend to be women, demanding access to women's reserved places.

He can't deal with it.

I would also object to men, who do not pretend to be women, demanding access to women's reserved places.
But that seems to be much rarer.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Would people prefer to see this woman enter women spaces?
View attachment 412047
Ot this man?
View attachment 412048

Both are transgender.

If the women's space is considered private e.g. changing rooms, toilets etc, they shouldn't be entering. These should be safe spaces for real women.

 

[King Billy]

• Legal Position: The Equality Act 2010 allows providers to offer single-sex facilities. Following Supreme Court rulings, "sex" in this context refers to biological sex, meaning trans women (biological males) can be restricted from women-only spaces.
• Trespass and Conduct: If a man enters a women’s toilet and is asked to leave by the provider/owner, refusal to leave is a criminal offense (trespass) under the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994.

Exclusions: Public, private, and workplace providers (e.g., shops, hospitals, gyms) can legally enforce single-sex policies, restricting access to biological women only.

Can you provide a source for your quote, please. I don't want someone's opinion on what the Equality Act does or says, especially as it is biased and not accurate. I want a reliable version of it.
I've searched for your quote, but I can't find it anywhere. I can only assume it's been cropped and clipped out of all recognition.

While you're here, and appearing to want to engage in sensible debate, do you accept that intersex babies are born, and that intersex people exist?

The UN estimates that about 1.7% of the population are intersex.
For the UK, that's more than 1,000,000
For Europe, that's nearly 13,000,000
For America that's about 6,000,000

Globally, there's more than 140,000,000 intersex people. Do you deny the existence of these people?
That's more than twice the UK population.

 

[King Billy]

Poor Billy is off his head.

He thinks I am a religious fanatic.

Complete fabrication.

I simply object to men, who pretend to be women, demanding access to women's reserved places.

He can't deal with it.

I would also object to men, who do not pretend to be women, demanding access to women's reserved places.
But that seems to be much rarer.

You are a religious fanatic. You refuse to accept the existence of intersex babies, children and adults. The UN estimates that there are more than 140,000,000 intersex people in the world. That's 140,000,000 people that your religious fanaticism refuses to accept. it's about the same as the population of UK and France combined.

You've accused me of lying about your refusal to accept that they exist. But rather than take the obvious opportunity to prove that I'm lying, you are unable to recognise that intersex babies and adults exist, because your religious fanaticism doesn't allow it.
Your religious fanaticism only recognises sex as binary.
I'll ask again, do you accept that intersex babies and people exist? Here is your opportunity to prove that I'm wrong about you.

You use the phrase "men dressed as women" so that you can intentionally conflate all transwomen with male sex criminals.
You do so to hide and protect your bigoted religious fanaticism.

You can't deal with the fact that there are about 140,000,000 intersex people in the world.
Your whole philosophy and argument rests entirely on your persistence to pretend they don't exist.

Your conflation of transwomen with male sex criminals is like saying that all mentally ill people are psychopaths, which is obvious nonsense, yet you cling to your argument in order to hide your bigotry.

Prove me wrong, accept that intersex people exist and that sex is not binary.

 

[King Billy]

If the women's space is considered private e.g. changing rooms, toilets etc, they shouldn't be entering. These should be safe spaces for real women.

JohnD's argument relies on his belief that transwomen are really male sex criminals intent on committing offences.
He is unable to accept that intersex people exist, that they were assigned the wrong label at birth which gave rise to their transexuality.
It's a religiously inspired doctrine that guides his bigotry, not medical science.

The recent Supreme Court ruling introduced as many errors, complications and potential inequalities as it tried to resolve.

The BMJ described it as:

At its recent conference on 25-26 April the committee voted to pass a motion that condemned the court’s ruling as “scientifically illiterate” and “biologically nonsensical.”

https://www.bmj.com/content/389/bmj.r900

If you are a transgender person in Britain right now, it is likely that you are living in a constant state of fear and anxiety. Recent events, including the Supreme Court’s ruling on the definition of a woman, Keir Starmer’s statement that transgender women are not women(1) and the Equalities and Human Rights Commission’s guidance on which public toilets transgender people are permitted to use, i.e. none(2), suggest that transgender rights in the UK are under threat. These developments do not exist in isolation and will have tangible effects on the care provided to transgender people in Britain.

https://www.bmj.com/content/389/bmj.r900/rapid-responses

There have been several misguided, or intentionally misinterpreted 'guidelines' given by biased or unintelligent people.
The case in HWM's post is a perfect example.
It is not illegal for a male, or a transwomen to enter and use a female toilet. It never has been, and it still isn't
It's legal for a male or a transwomen to refuse to leave the toilet when asked to by another user.
When and if, and as far as I am aware there have been no cases yet, the owner or proprietor of the establishment requests a male or a transwomen to leave, it's on the grounds of trespass. which is a civil (not criminal) matter. It only becomes a criminal offence if or when a police requests the person to leave that space, and they refuse, or the confrontation escalates.


In addition, we now have the silly situation of transmen, female (according to their birth cert') using women's spaces.
So women will more likely see someone like this in their spaces:

than someone like this:

Both are transgender.