Grid Neon

[Lectrician]

I am on a job where I am adding a 2 way sitch - not quite your usual deal, there is a detached office one side of a yard, and a house the other. There are two metal halide floods switched from the office. There is a neon in the grid switch to show when the lights are on.

I have run a 4 core SWA from the office to the house to create the two way switching, 4 core for a neutral to be able to use a neon at the new end.

Here is the odd bit.

The customer does not want a large neon in the plate (as it is done in the office), they want a standard plate switch with a descrete neon...

Anyone know of a 2 way switch that has the neon built into the rocker? I am pretty sure you can only get these in DP.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If you could find one, which switch terminal would the neon be connected to?

 

[GaryMo]

I would guess it'll be connected to whichever terminal he has the switch wire in (L1 or L2) and neutral and another neon at the other side between the strapper which shares the same terminal as the switch wire and neutral again.

EDIT - BAS edited his post as I typed this! It was in relation to him asking which terminals the neon would be connected to.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The edit was a temporary aberration...

 

[GaryMo]

Hang on a sec while I google that.......

 

[GaryMo]

....a lapse in control of one's mental faculties

 

[Steve]

I thought metal halide lights should only be controlled by "stable" switching methods, as they dont like being switched off and on, as could happen with plate switches. Hence they are usually connected to some sort of automation, such as timer or photocell.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I would guess it'll be connected to whichever terminal he has the switch wire in (L1 or L2) and neutral and another neon at the other side between the strapper which shares the same terminal as the switch wire and neutral again.

He's looking for a switch with an integral neon. So would they make it with a loose wire, for you to connect to L1 or L2 as appropriate, or would they make an assumption that at the other end you'd always have L1, or always have L2, as the switched live?

And given that it could never work if it was in a 3+ way circuit, would they ever bother to make one?

Lectrician - what about drilling a hole in the faceplate and putting a small panel mount neon in?

 

[GaryMo]

I would guess it'll be connected to whichever terminal he has the switch wire in (L1 or L2) and neutral and another neon at the other side between the strapper which shares the same terminal as the switch wire and neutral again.

He's looking for a switch with an integral neon. So would they make it with a loose wire, for you to connect to L1 or L2 as appropriate, or would they make an assumption that at the other end you'd always have L1, or always have L2, as the switched live?

And given that it could never work if it was in a 3+ way circuit, would they ever bother to make one?

Lectrician - what about drilling a hole in the faceplate and putting a small panel mount neon in?

You asked which terminal he would connect it to so on that basis you expected loose conductors hence my reply. Intermediate switches didn't enter the conversation.

It's no big deal anyway so lets not go there.

He'll more than likely retrofit a discreet neon in a plate switch if that's more cosmetically suitable to the customer, as you suggested

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You asked which terminal he would connect it to so on that basis you expected loose conductors hence my reply.

Actually, I asked "which switch terminal would the neon be connected to?", i.e. if it had a little neon in the rocker, then internally which terminal would it be connected to?

Would you expect a switch with a neon in the rocker to have a wire you had to connect yourself to the right terminal?

Intermediate switches didn't enter the conversation.

No, but if you were a switch manufacturer, would you make a product which wouldn't work if there were intermediate switches in the circuit?

He'll more than likely retrofit a discreet neon in a plate switch if that's more cosmetically suitable to the customer, as you suggested

It might not be bright enough, but I've made very discreet indicators by putting the end of this type of lamp:

into a small hole in a panel

 

[Lectrician]

I thought metal halide lights should only be controlled by "stable" switching methods, as they dont like being switched off and on, as could happen with plate switches. Hence they are usually connected to some sort of automation, such as timer or photocell.

Hence the use of neons to show when the lighting is on or off. Stops people flicking the switches on a two way cct if they are unsure if it is on or not.

I do not think they do a switch or switch module with a neon in it which is 2 way - just your usual DP switches.

I think I wil just try to keep to the original plan which is an MK 2 way sw and neon adjacent. I am pretty sure nothing exists.

I could, as BAS says, drill a hole and fit a neon, but I then need to faff with a current limiting resistor unless I use a neon with one built in, and the assembly will not be to a british standard, so not ideal.

You are right, you can only have a neon each end with just 4 cores if you have no intermediates.

 

[Lectrician]

Perhaps I should have persuaded them to have the new switch outside - I could have used an MK masterseal switch then. You can wire the neon on those as you please, to use them as an 'on' indicator, or as a 'locator' (across switch contacts, no neutral).

 

[Lectrician]

Looks like the Australian version of the Clipsal grid switches have the option to wire the neon in the top of the rocker however you wish. That would work perfectly, but hey ho.


[EDIT]
Actually, the UK version is capable of this too.

A shape the Clipsal stuff looks such tat.

I wonder if I could adapt an MK 2way switch module and an MK double pole with neon switch module......

 

[333rocky333]

Not sure cannot find one now, but what about them MK fire alarm keyswitch/neon things,

They look like the key switch is just a grid one, maybe that comes out and a 2 way switch fit in.

EDIT
Forgot they have a fuse on em.

 

[Lectrician]

Using MK grid, I have tried mating a 20amp DP with neon with a 10amp 2way switch.

You can do this very easily to achieve a neon across the common and the neutral, which would come in useful for two way in certain situations - wired in the conduit method for example. The empty hole on the two way become a neutral terminal.

To achieve the same thing with the neon between L1 or L2 and the neutral, you would need to solder a small piece of PCB type wire from the neon to one of the terminals which would be tricky to route, but possible.

I am not doing this on the job anymore anyway - I used a grid neon. I will likely use this at home though for my rear lights which are two way to a couple doors - one of which is out of site of the lights.