Has Part P gone too far?

[ban-all-sheds]

DW - this is what the law requires, and therefore it is what the electrician is legally bound to do - contravention is punishable by a fine of up to £5,000 and a term of imprisonment of up to 6 months.

P1 Reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury.

Which bit of it do you disagree with?

 

[bernardgreen]

how would you like a nice new fuse board installed on a system that could kill you

If the system was lethal before the nice new fuse board was installed then the nice new fuse board may turn the power of before you are irreversably dead. That is an improvement.

If the system is lethal and the new consumer unit with RCB is not installed the risk remains high. With the RCB fitted the risk of death is slightly reduced.

I agree the electrician now have to cover themselves against legal action if they fit new safety devices to a poor quality installation. That is where the rules and/or law is wrong. If the electrician acts in good faith to reduce the over all risk then, providing he has made it clear to the customer that there remains a risk, he should not be legally responsible for the pre-existing risks.

 

[ricicle]

Question to the OP.
You have the safety of your family as a priority (quite rightly)

Scenario:-

An 'Electrician' offers to change your CU without checking any circuits.
There is an accident involving a member of your family due to a faulty piece of electrical wiring which the new CU could not have detected.

Who are you going to blame when your emotions are running high ?

 

[ricewind]

in last 3 day i have changed 3 CU in 3 different types of properties, as all i went to do was a PIR on all of them. and all of the properties and as yo would so a shinny CU on the wall.

1st one i went to RCD didn't trip out
2nd CU was over loaded and and was on a 100mA RCD
3rd RCD with type S tripped out at 5 Delta I at 138ms not that bad
but at 1DetlaI tripped out at 600mS.

if i never tested any of none of the above this would have cause great risk to the tenant, when they moved in.

And you are wondering why this is relevant and of the above could be wrong with any new part when you buy them. in the past i have fitted new MCB as my Zs have been high but along my main RCD not was faulty of i have lose screws in socket outlet and if left could cause a fire.

and remember BS7671 is only for giudance and is not a legal document,
Part P get all it testing from this document

 

[sparkyspike]

And you are wondering why this is relevant and of the above could be wrong with any new part when you buy them. in the past i have fitted new MCB as my Zs have been high but along my main RCD not was faulty of i have lose screws in socket outlet and if left could cause a fire.

WTF?

 

[electronicsuk]

how would you like a nice new fuse board installed on a system that could kill you

If the system was lethal before the nice new fuse board was installed then the nice new fuse board may turn the power of before you are irreversably dead. That is an improvement.

How so? Without any testing the electrician (or anyone else for that matter) will not know if the RCD(s) even work, nor will they know if earth fault loop impedance will be sufficiently low enough to operate protective devices such as MCBs in the event of a fault.

 

[harrisonline]

Get a few more quotes.

I had a new CU fitted about 18 months ago and had everything tested. It cost me less than £400 for everything. OK so he didn't find anything wrong and he would have charged more if he had found faults. It was with a Part-p registered electrician.

With the housing market slow down you would think that electricians would have lowered their prices to get some work in.

 

[ColJack]

Get a few more quotes.
With the housing market slow down you would think that electricians would have lowered their prices to get some work in.

and if your boss came up to you and told you you had to take a paycut of £2 /hr so the company could be more competative and get more work in... what would your response be?

has beer been reduced in price to keep sales up?

 

[harrisonline]

Yes I have taken a pay cut. I work in a cable factory making the cables you use and cable factories are closing down left right and centre because of lack of sales.

I was just pointing out that if cable factories are closing due to a lack of sales because houses are not getting built etc.... Somewhere there must be self employed electricians struggling to find enough work and therfore may offer someone a good deal, under cut the other quotes to keep busy and pay the bills.

Sorry I did not mean to offend anyone.

 

[MrHumbug]

has beer been reduced in price to keep sales up?

Depends on what you call beer. Tesco seems to try and shift huge stacks of cheap lager fairly regularly.

 

[Spark123]

3rd RCD with type S tripped out at 5 Delta I at 138ms not that bad
but at 1DetlaI tripped out at 600mS.

Out of interest, why the 5x test on a type S?
The requirement for it to trip sub 200mS at significantly a higher than I/\n current in a TT system?

 

[Jezclayton]

Now all of the electricians that come round to quote to change the consumer unit, quote around 400 to change the consumer unit, but then say all of the circuits have to be tested before reconnecting them, which they say could add another 600-700 pounds., as it is

I am Part P registered for the purposes of my main trade (heating) but not an electrician. I think all the proper electricians have given good argument as to the importance of electrical inspection and it would clearly be folly for anyone to undertake a change of CU without such.

What I don't understand is why the electricians feel it necessary to give two quotes. By example, were I to quote for installing a gas appliance (keep it simple and say a cooker), I don't quote one fee for connecting it and then another fee for checking it's safe.

I would have thought in the average domestic house that one day was more than sufficient to replace a CU and do all the required testing (my own electricians manage it). Even with the supply of the materials £1,000 to £1,100 seems expensive. Why £600 to £700 for the test, which can be done in the same day? Sure, if there is a faulty circuit that cannot be connected that would be an extra and would need further discussion with the customer.

 

[il78]

I think its meant to be £600 test and board change...

 

[JonoPashley]

Simply answer is Part P didnt go far enough, Certain electrical items should be totally restricted from none qualified persons purchasing. I have no problems with someone adding a light or a socket, but when jimmy from down the pub whose done a bit of electrics before starts playing with CUs etcetc which are very rarely tested to see if they even comply, it just gets silly.

 

[Spark123]

If you restrict it there suddenly becomes a black market in it.
I can still buy gas fittings but that would be illegal for me to fit for someone else. It would be illegal for me to fit it for myself as I don't have a clue about the stuff!