Heat pumps ......grant of £70 000 !!!

[gasbanni]

And it doesn't work ! ...if its grant work who assess the final finished installation to ensure the money has been utilised properly...who signs off the installation???


https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...ed-70-000-grants-heat-pump-saved-NOTHING.html

 

[big-all]

you only get something like 6k thats the total for all the grants given but you know that anyway

 

[ReganAndCarter]

And it doesn't work ! ...if its grant work who assess the final finished installation to ensure the money has been utilised properly...who signs off the installation???

Doesn't matter. Throw in words like 'environment', 'climate change', 'carbon neutral', etc. etc and money is seemingly no object. It's the new religion and the hard-pressed taxpayer's wallet is ripe for the picking. No matter that other countries continue polluting and we're broke - we must set an exmple to the world. An example of our gullability and stupidity.

 

[AngleEyes]

An example of our gullability and stupidity.

And you do that every time.

 

[jeds]

It should be obvious that heat pumps will work well in some situations, but not in others. The problem I see is an industry will sprout up - just like the PV panel thing a few years back - which will be immediately populated by charlatans. It will be easy to pursued people - I mean, let's face it, quite a lot of people who should know don't have the first clue about how these things really work or the limitations. The sad fact is, people will buy systems from these people and more than half of them won't work efficiently.

Going back to the PV thing; I know a contractor who got into it in a big way. He told me recently that a large number of the systems he fitted (we are talking 10 years ago) no longer work because the inverters need replacing. When he tells the people the cost of a new inverter they just switch them off. They're not bothered because they still get the feed-in tariff and most of them didn't actually use any of the electricity from them anyway because they are out all day.

 

[sxturbo]

Reading between the lines the house is cold because they don't run the system, because they deem it too expensive to run.

They also live in an old house, which doesn't sound like it's had insulation installed on the walls,

It's a very big house.

If that were my family, is have installed an oil boiler (maybe an LPG boiler) set to a low temperature, by now to supplement the heat pump, or even just remove the heat heat pump completely and just run LPG or oil.

No way would I be allowing my kids to be cold enough they have to wear a coat indoors throughout the winter.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

It should be obvious that heat pumps will work well in some situations, but not in others. The problem I see is an industry will sprout up - just like the PV panel thing a few years back - which will be immediately populated by charlatans. It will be easy to pursued people - I mean, let's face it, quite a lot of people who should know don't have the first clue about how these things really work or the limitations. The sad fact is, people will buy systems from these people and more than half of them won't work efficiently.

Going back to the PV thing; I know a contractor who got into it in a big way. He told me recently that a large number of the systems he fitted (we are talking 10 years ago) no longer work because the inverters need replacing. When he tells the people the cost of a new inverter they just switch them off. They're not bothered because they still get the feed-in tariff and most of them didn't actually use any of the electricity from them anyway because they are out all day.

Yep, some people are going to get very rich off the back of all this stuff. And as if folk don't get enough junk phone calls / emails already, get ready for more from companies offering to install heat pumps etc etc.

 

[jeds]

I've had two large heat pumps installed in two large properties (dwellings) in the last 2 years. Both in the region of 330m², technically conversions but, effectively, new builds - both insulated to much higher levels than normal. Both systems had to have oil boilers to supplement the heat pump and produce hot water. The owners say that they do get warm but they reckon the oil boiler does a lot of topping up. Both say they are expensive to run, but then they are large properties.

 

[JP_]

They said they spent £30k on triple glazed windows - but did they insulate their home? Maybe not!
From what I understand, or thought I understood, there are 2 types of ground source heat pump.
Shallow ones that are just a metre or so down, which are good helping to heat water as it is warmer in winter than mains water, and then the much deeper ones (30m+) that are good for central heating. But maybe I'm am wrong / behind the times. Either way, it seems obvious that you need to get down to the really hot ground to have a real benefit, or you will just be using electricity to heat your home, which is more expensive.

 

[jeds]

They said they spent £30k on triple glazed windows - but did they insulate their home? Maybe not!
From what I understand, or thought I understood, there are 2 types of ground source heat pump.
Shallow ones that are just a metre or so down, which are good helping to heat water as it is warmer in winter than mains water, and then the much deeper ones (30m+) that are good for central heating. But maybe I'm am wrong / behind the times. Either way, it seems obvious that you need to get down to the really hot ground to have a real benefit, or you will just be using electricity to heat your home, which is more expensive.

I friend of mine has a piling company. He had the equipment, so about 20 years ago he set up an off-shoot business installing deep ground source units. Still doing quite well but it isn't cheap. The alternative is to lay pipework in a trench - but this is nowhere near as good. I've not seen it but I've heard of people freezing their gardens.

 

[JP_]

yeah, the trenches are only a bit warmer than air temperature.
And even when drilling, its geology that determines how much warmer it might be - you need to go down about 100m for decent heat.
It's almost pointless digging a trench in the garden.

Government plan is probably to encourage electrical heating, in disguise as green energy heat pumps, and hope to ramp up wind turbines and nuclear.

 

[jeds]

An interesting aside; when I was at uni, we did a project for a local open air swimming pool. Not a huge place but much loved by the locals. Several years earlier they had to re-lay the car park and someone had the idea of laying pipework under the tarmac. Literally just a huge coil of pipework. The pipe ran through a heat exchanger which heated the pool water. On good days it heated the water with no assistance - and other days supplemented. Pretty good return I thought for such a simple arrangement.

 

[^woody^]

Years ago, I read a report that air source heat pumps were only efficient when the air is really cold such as in Scandinavian countries where they are all the rage - Sweden uses a lot of them apparently. But it is not the case that they will work just as well in the UK climate - and this will be even more relevant bearing in mind that the UK's average winter temperatures are now higher than in the past. Unless the technology has change - which I doubt it.

Ground source is slightly different but may well follow the same efficiency principle.

The other factor that everyone loses sight of, is that as the temperature output from both technologies is lower, homes require massive amounts of insulation and draught-proofing along with some passive solar gain. So heat pumps are not just something that can be swapped in place of a boiler say.

The noise of the pumps may well fall foul of environmental law too just like the pumps from the chav garden spa's that cause so many complaints.

And just like for electric vehicle charging, there is simply no room for many properties to have these air or ground pump systems installed anyway

So when gas boilers go, the majority will be left with just electric heating as an option - expensive now, but just wait until we all start paying for the new power stations that will be needed ... whether nuclear or any of the green power production methods.

 

[bernardgreen]

a report that air source heat pumps were only efficient when the air is really cold

Really cold are does not carry much water vapour which means very little ice can build up on the very cold evaporator. Ice does not conduct heat and this ice build up effectively wraps the evaporator in thermal insulation.

The efficienciency does become very low when the cost of electricity used to heat the evaporator and melt the ice is taken into account.

When the ambient air is warmer than 4°C then the efficiency increases with temperature.

For many homes ASHPs are not as great as the marketing people claim they are.

 

[^woody^]

For many homes ASHPs are not as great as the marketing people claim they are.

Remember what happened to home wind turbines?

"What home wind turbines?" you may say.

Exactly