Heating circulator incorrectly sized?

[D_Hailsham]

What I don't understand is the fact he ridiculed the very member who has given him some of the information that he writes about on here.

I'm lost. I haven't mentioned any member by name, so which member am I supposed to have ridiculed?

It's ironic that the one member for whom I have considerable regard, as he seems to talk more sense than most, is the person who has taken it upon himself to ridicule me.

 

[D_Hailsham]

Do you remember Gaswizzard DH?

So you had to register under a different name. Why was that? Don't tell me you were banned!!

 

[Steelmasons]

Been banned a few times , this is my 9th username DH.

 

[Steelmasons]

I'm lost. I haven't mentioned any member by name, so which member am I supposed to have ridiculed?

It's ironic that the one member for whom I have considerable regard, as he seems to talk more sense than most, is the person who has taken it upon himself to ridicule me.

Well DH , it was myself that suggested balancing isn't usually necessary when using Drayton thermostatic rad valves (domestic installation) to which you disagreed and posted up some literature from Drayton , I don't recall any other member mentioning balancing wasn't required when using these type valves (so it had to be myself that you were ridiculing).
I have installed a good few systems over the years using TR4's and not yet have I had to balance a system due to poor flow rate , I do this for a living day in and day out.
So to the point.....you called the member you supposedly have "considerable regard for" a "so-called professional".
I can read a post on here and straight away I can tell whether the poster is a googler or a professional as can most of the pros on here.
One particular poster on here (not yourself) "thinks" he's a professional although he is far from it , the diyers/googlers actually believe the shyte he posts.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Phew. For a moment I thought he was talking to me.



If I ask a direct question, and it's avoided, then consider yourself open for ridicule.

Mr Hailsham, I agree is a positive contributer here despite his over reliance on Google.

 

[Steelmasons]

I believe DH was referring to you Dan.

 

[D_Hailsham]

Well DH , it was myself that suggested balancing isn't usually necessary when using Drayton thermostatic rad valves (domestic installation) to which you disagreed and posted up some literature from Drayton , I don't recall any other member mentioning balancing wasn't required when using these type valves (so it had to be myself that you were ridiculing).

If you read my comment carefully you will see that I was not referring specifically to members of this forum, just that I had read, somewhere, advice that balancing was not necessary with TRVs. Some even said that a system with TRVs was "self-balancing". It could have been on any forum, so don't flatter yourself that I was thinking of you.

I have installed a good few systems over the years using TR4's and not yet have I had to balance a system due to poor flow rate , I do this for a living day in and day out.

I can't beat you on quantity, but I do know of three houses with TRV's fitted (TRV4 or Honeywell VT2000) where the balance was way out.

So to the point.....you called the member you supposedly have "considerable regard for" a "so-called professional".

I did not say that, as explained above.

I can read a post on here and straight away I can tell whether the poster is a googler or a professional as can most of the pros on here.

So? I can read posts on here from professionals and know immediately whose advice makes sense. It doesn't matter if the poster is a "googler" or a "professional", the important thing is that they are giving good advice.

 

[bhm1712]

In answer to a question a page or so back, no I haven't "bolted" I've just taken a step back to let you guys sort out whatever needs sorting out....

I'm not here to cause problems etc I just wanted advice which I feel you guys have been giving for the most part but the thread is mainly off topic now so thought it best to stop posting for now.

 

[Dan Robinson]

You need to do the checks I think you were asked to do....

We'll amuse ourselves until then .

 

[PullerGas]

In answer to a question a page or so back, no I haven't "bolted" I've just taken a step back to let you guys sort out whatever needs sorting out....

I'm not here to cause problems etc I just wanted advice which I feel you guys have been giving for the most part but the thread is mainly off topic now so thought it best to stop posting for now.

.....Never laughed so much since the wife died!!!!
Look fella's, it's me that DH holds in high regard......just get over it & move on!!!

 

[shambolic]

Handbags

 

[bhm1712]

Right I've found the thread!

I've had a pro heating engineer in at last now I'm fully moved in. He has balanced the system again for a 15 degree drop across almost all radiators - he said he has got it bang on and was one of the easiest system to balance he's ever done once he overcame an "issue" with the return temp at the boiler (his thermocouple was initially a type J plugged into a type k reader and giving a bad reading leading to some confusion as to the delta T at the boiler) He has checked the setting on the "tacanova setter" bypass valve and that is functioning as required. He says that the system balances up very nicely and with a flow temperature of 70 degrees the return to the boiler is a steady 55 degrees. However he cannot fathom why 2 of the radiators (now instead of 4 there's 2 that don't get as hot as the rest) don't achieve the same temperature as the rest of the system. They are the 2 furthest from the boiler and pump. On the flow side of both of these the temperature incoming is 62 degrees instead of the 70 degrees on the others. With both lock shields fully open the drop is still 22-25 degrees.

In his opinion he said this was not a balancing issue but he believes the 15-60 pump is not strong enough to overcome the head of the system as the total length of the index circuit is around 30 metres in length and has a max height of 3 meters above the boiler. The index circuit is indeed ran in 28mm copper but has 15mm tap-ins for the radiators apart from towards the 2 back bedrooms where the flow and return has been fed off the index circuit in 22mm reducing to 15mm tap ins for the radiators.

Also what we didn't realise is that the jacuzzi room dehumidifier Is connected to the central heating off its own zone valve which is activated by the humidistat in the unit so that when the dehumidifier is on, it sends a run signal to the boiler and pump. He has tested this circuit and it has its own dedicated flow but the return is a T into the main CH index circuit return. There is no passing of the zone valve when the dehum is turned off and the zone valve closed.

Yesterday I refitted all of the trv heads (these had been removed for balancing and testing) and even when these close down the temperature achieved at the last 2 rads doesn't increase by more than a couple of degrees.

He said his next task was (with our approval) to return and fit a 25-80 UPS2 130mm pump to see if this could overcome the circuit head and get the full temperature flow to the colder radiators but he could not guarantee it would work.

He did say that the total radiator output is 22.8 kW and matches the 24kw rating of the boiler nicely but the radiators are undersized for maximum efficiency to be achieved with the condensing boiler which would require a flow temperature of 65 degrees or less to bring the return down to 50 degrees or less for full condensing mode and low modulation.

What do you guys think?

 

[D_Hailsham]

The Tacanova setter is not a automatic bypass valve; it is a flow control valve. So there will be a fixed flow through it all the time. What is its setting?

I don't understand why it was fitted if you have a standard Super Selectric 15-60 pump. I assume that is correct as you said so at the very beginning. If you actually have a UPS2, then that's a different matter.

How many motorized valves do you have? If only one - mid-position type - then an ABV is not necessary; but if you have two valves - one on rad circuit, other on cylinder circuit - then you do need an ABV.

Is the 30m index circuit length there and back?

 

[PullerGas]

FFS, I hope he's not got the whole heating load going via a m-p valve DH???!!!!

 

[bhm1712]

Hi,

30 metres is from the boiler to the furthest radiator away and another 30 meters back in terms of pipework travelled distance.

There are 3 motorised valves - one for central heating, one for the hot water and one for the dehumidifier circuit. Pipework (28mm) comes out of the boiler flow, to the pump and then about 40 cm from the pump has an X piece. left for the CH flow, right for HW flow and down for the dehumidifier flow, all with motorised valve about 10 cm from the X piece itself.

Tacanova adjuster is set to 2 and the pump is a ups 15-60 not ups2