Heating not going off on timer

[cliffG]

yes pipe to heating was hot sorry, valve stayed on W didn't move from last time.. Didnt move to CH.
testing the HW and CH putting both on constant. cly stat down and room stat down turning the room stat up valve moved to Heat and pump kicked in.
But turning the HW and CH back onto timed ( due to come on at 2pm ) the pump will not go off unless i switch the boiler off completely or switch the spur on and on.

 

[Daveydub]

yes pipe to heating was hot

This (I think) was while valve is in water only position. Correct?
This indicates that the valve is lettng by (not closing off the heating circuit fully)
You may be able to remove valve head & (pair of pliers or something) operate the spindle repeatedly & see if that has freed anything up enough to allow it to fully close.
Otherwise it is remove valve & clean seating & paddle inside.
The valve head is securely clicked in to place ??

The rest is a separate problem:
Some boilers have a pump over-run so pump continues for a while after system turns off. Don't know what boiler you have so don't know if this applies in your case.
Go back to
hw & ch constant, cylinder stat down. Does room stat now switch boiler on/off. Turn room stat down. Is boiler now off. Does pump go off after 10 minutes

I don't see that this is the answer but just have a quick check in the junction box that all the wires from the valve are in place and that none have dropped out particularly the grey wire

 

[cliffG]

Thanks for the help so far, I did check all the wires in the junction box all still connected.
hw & ch constant, cylinder stat down. room stat now switch boiler on. Now I turn the room stat back down and after 5 min turns off pump.

Have now noticed the valve is still in the H pos and the little lever at the side that is always floppy ( as it should be) will not move so does that also point to the valve is stuck open.
I have still to check when time comes around for heating and water to go back on works and will check that shortly.

 

[Daveydub]

Oh good, we are making progress.
Your timeclock has 3 outputs
When Water is on it sends live up the water on wire which connects to the orange of the zone valve (interrupted by the cylinder stat)
When heating is on it sends live up the heating on wire, which connects to the white of the valve (interrupted by the roomstat)
When water is off it sends live to the grey of the zone valve.
When water is on at clock but off at cyl stat, the cyl stat diverts the water on live to the grey.

It seems that your clock is not providing this live for water off although just to make sure that there have been no misunderstanding:
Stick your water to continuous, heating timed, cyl stat to normal position.
Your water will now run untill cylinder is hot and then all will switch off. You will get a bit of heat to the rads because of the valve letting by but ignore this for now.
When heating comes on, it should now operate perfectly normally, room stat will control pump & boiler because the cylinder stat is providing the water off feed rather than the time clock.

If you can get the time clock off put a link wire from terminal L to terminal 1 (htg on) and a link from 1 to 4 (water off)
Dont replace the clock front and power back on. It should all now behave as if you had selected heating only on the clock.
If replacing the clock I would not waste time looking for a exact replacement, people like what they like, loads like honeywell, I prefer ACLhttps://www.screwfix.com/p/drayton-lp522-mk4-programmer/20673

 

[cliffG]

I was waiting for the timer to come on and had the heating set to timed and water timed but cyl stat on 0
heating came on ok when expected. Testing your suggestion above : water on constant and heat on timed ( re setting the clock so time setting would come on in a few hours)
water has heated up but pump has not gone off after 45 min I am sure it would take a shorter time to fill the HW tank ? rads are still piping hot.
Just so i am clear I have two problems still the valve may be stuck ? is that right ( i will try your pliers trick tomorrow)
2nd the timer and the hot water live, I think as this seems to be the issue I will get the unit off the wall tomorrow and do the wiring hook up also.

 

[Daveydub]

You can get valve to w only position with water on & heating off.
At this point hot water should come in to centre of valve & flow out one port of valve to cylinder . The other pipe should remain cold but yours does not. Valve letting by (not properly closing heating circuit)

After 45 mins I would have expected the cylinder to have got hot but I don't know how big your cylinder is or how high you set the cyl stat or if any water was used in that time. Because a bit of heat is being "wasted" (sent to rads) this would also extend cylinder reheat time. You can replicate the cylinder being hot by turning the cylinder stat down

After wiggling the valve spindle you can easily tell if you have cured the problem. Put valve head back on, give it 5/10 minutes for pipes to cool a bit, set to water only, make sure that indicator is water only, put your hands on the pipes and you will feel whether they are all getting hotter or if the heating feed is now properly closed

and do the wiring hook up also.

And don't forget, mains off first

 

[cliffG]

Yes thanks safety first

 

[cliffG]

I am a bit confused : I have done the below and valve was very stiff to start and then moved it and now very loose. Put everything back set it to water constant and both sides of valve were hot even after 10 mins but rads did not get hot. Does that mean the valve part is fixed ?

After wiggling the valve spindle you can easily tell if you have cured the problem. Put valve head back on, give it 5/10 minutes for pipes to cool a bit, set to water only, make sure that indicator is water only, put your hands on the pipes and you will feel whether they are all getting hotter or if the heating feed is now properly closed

I have managed to get the cover off and have wired the terminals as you suggested and heating has come on ( valve moves to heat ) What does this tell me.
I assume a new programmer is required, your link looks good but have seen the si version of that one do you know the difference ?

 

[cliffG]

ignore my last post the heating didn't come on when i wired behind the panel ? the pump started but nothing happened. I think I just need to replace the controller as noted the date installed 1996. I have put everything back as normal and will get the controller during the week. One possible reason it didnt work I wired it into the slots the pins go into I bet you tell me that is wrong and should have undone the screws and wired behind them ?

 

[Daveydub]

I think I just need to replace the controller

I think so too but I am not certain yet hence the further tests.
We have at last moved the indicator to heating only position without turning cylinder stat down so I am probably right in my assumption but I would have wanted your heating to come on during this test. Suggest you go back to putting the wires in to clock but under screws, turn cyl stat to normal position, turn room stat up, heating should now run & indicator in H position. Give it 10 minutes before you decide whether this is the case or not. Turn room stat down & heating should go off but again, don't be hasty.

should have undone the screws and wired behind them ?

Yes
The Si version has a facility to set a service reminder so that the clock can tell you when service is due. No advantage to you I think.
I gave you that link because it was the first one that I found. Here is the complete range:
https://www.draytoncontrols.co.uk/products/time-controls/lifestyle
Basically ending in a 1 is single channel which means control only over ch not water therefore you need one ending in a 2
Starting with a 1 is 1 day (24 hr) control, starting with a 5 means 5 & 2 day control so sat+ sun can be different times to mon-fri. Starting with 7 or 8 means each day can be set differently.
Only you can decide how much control you want, the advance buttons are so useful that even a 24 hr one is very useful. I think (from what you said) money is short so I would be guided by price.
An ebay search shows plenty of new (don't get used) for around the £40 mark, don't forget that you want a 2 on the end, some of the pictures are misleading

 

[cliffG]

Thanks yes knew it was a 2 channel one I wanted and will look at the range. Thanks for all the help dont know how much it would have cost if had someone in.

 

[Daveydub]

When you swap the backplates, have a little felt tip handy to number the cables and a scrap of paper to make notes. The diagram in both clocks should make the swap pretty self explanatory. A quick photo before you begin may also be useful. Let us know how you get on.

 

[cliffG]

Thanks will do yes camera at the ready.

 

[cliffG]

Dave,
Since i freed the valve and took the controller off the wall i dont have any heating an ideas

 

[cliffG]

sorry even the Y on the PC keyboard has stuck should be any ideas