Heating not working. Help required to Diagnose

[Agile]

Amazing how some people think cheapest is best!

Then we have the problems to repair them when they fail after a short time.

Tony

 

[LKO]

Do check it isn't a bad connection in the white connector first though!

Tested the electrics by removing the white connector and going direct... some changes in readings ... let me know if its makes situation more clear... Before attempting actuator change, should i verify CONTROL PROGRAMMER output in anyway as well or does this all point still to faulty actuator ?

Heating off at programmer, Hot water off at programmer
Grey wire 245V
White wire 0V
Orange wire 0V
Valve at left side (valve goes to right initially after power has been cut off to junction box)

Heating on at programmer, room stat turned up, hot water off at programmer: - SAME AS BEFORE
Grey wire 240V 243V
White wire 240V 245V
Orange wire 240V 22-26V
Valve right over to heating only Valve to right only

Heating on at programmer, room stat turned up, hot water on at programmer, cylinder stat calling: CHANGED on grey wire, and orange
Grey wire 50-150V 0-25
White wire 240V 240-800V
Orange wire 240V 243V
Valve at mid position Valve at mid position (oscillating a little with clicking sound)

Heating on at programmer, room stat turned up, hot water on at programmer, cylinder stat satisfied: SAME AS BEFORE (SEE BELOW**)
Grey wire 240V 243V
White wire 240V 243V
Orange wire 240V 22-26V
Valve right over to heating only Valve to right only

Heating off at programmer, hot water on at programmer, cylinder stat calling: CHANGED on grey, orange and valve position
Grey wire 0V 245V
White wire 50-150V 3V
Orange wire 240V 4V
Valve spring returned to hot water only Valve on right side (I had not switched off power this time. If I switch off before doing tests, readings are same but valve keeps default on position on left)

Also in the second last case **, (CH ON, RSTAT ON, HW ON, CYSTAT SATISFIED) when pump kicks in again for flushing I assume the residual heat from boiler the following readings are recording
Grey wire 240V
White wire 240V
Orange wire 240V
Valve spring to the right only

Read more: //www.diynot.com/diy/threads/h...lp-required-to-diagnose.454395/#ixzz41y2mUlB1

 

[Echo the husky]

Heating off at programmer, hot water on at programmer, cylinder stat calling: CHANGED

According to that the cylinder stat is satisfied not calling. Either way your valve actuator is definitely faulty.

 

[Echo the husky]

If you want Honeywell it's this valve, Which will require the system to be drained, they are good valves. The valve bodies can be repaired with the ball and O ring kit, the system will still need draining but no pipework connections need to be tampered with to carry out the repair. Any old plumber will be able to drain the system and fit it, I've certainly done it twice. (I'm an electrician) If you do it yourself, don't forget to put inhibitor back in.

If you just want to swap the actuator it's this one and no draining down or plumbing alterations are needed.

 

[LKO]

thanks again... i will try to get both Honeywell and Drayton in advance
Depending if the plumber/electrician decides to show up today take action ... with priority for Honeywell if not will try the drayton for the moment between today and tomorrow...

Regards Drayton Is this one ruled out ? or is it easy to dismantle the actuator (and keep valve for next time)...
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Drayton-MA1...&utm_content=deeplink&utm_campaign=DIYnot.com

And one more query...if it comes to myself to replace with Drayton... do I still need to open the blue top cover or there are other screws which I need to remove and it will just come off...

 

[Dean744PiN5]

Urgent help appreciated as kid under 2 years old

can't be that bloody urgent, if your still tinkering around with it 5 days later, just to save a few bob.

 

[Echo the husky]

Lol, when I was little we used to have ice on the inside of the windows in winter, no heating at all upstairs.

 

[LKO]

If the draining down is going to happen, I was looking for getting some shut-off valves fitting in the cold and hot water supply - currently there is no way to stop apart from the main stopcock outside on road, and some TRVs on radiators. This was decided last time I had a plumbing emergency.

The option of getting up in night to turn the Cylinder stat higher to get heating working is not something I would suggest as a workaround but unlike for some, even a few bob mean a lot when you start work at 530AM and end day at 1130PM. And its easy to make pun regards the kid but was told - it doesnt matter in the first few responses!

As for CH not working, it was bloody urgent and still remains but I have had quotes from full boiler replacement is better (stating you can get a boiler starting at £500 when actually keeping everything same even costs £3500) to saying its electricity issue to plumbing issue besides two no shows not counting today itself - when I was left holding Drayton and Honeywell parts. It seems bigger jobs mean more money and therefore priority than small ones even with callout charges at £80-100 ! Ofcourse I have not called AA or BG emergency rescue which have given me a quote of £220 and £250 excluding VAT. Maybe its better to pay them and get it done.

 

[LKO]

The £220 I mention is for labour only excluding parts. Do let me know if you consider it a fair quote for the job when only CH problem is being fixed (without any stop valves or TRV work added).

 

[HootingOwl]

OP there may he something about the way you are dealing with your heating engineers over the phone as ths is exactly the kid of job most of them like. Do you live in an area with no parking? That would put me off, and knowing that you had had a fiddle would up the estimate as there may be multiple faults by now. Telling me it is urgent would also put me off as you may be difficult to work for.

I replaced a drayton valve recently with exactly the same fault you describe. The valve body had become stiff and the actuator was unable to motor it fully over to ch only and make the microswitch. Replaced the entire valve with another Drayton for 135 all-in as it had easy access and an existing customer. The complete valve is ony a few quid more than the actuator on its own.

Try calling someone local who doesn't have to waste an hour travelling and you may get a result.

Or just do the job yourself - you seem competent and confident with the electrics and that is the part that scares most people.

 

[LKO]

OP there may he something about the way you are dealing with your heating engineers over the phone as ths is exactly the kid of job most of them like. Do you live in an area with no parking? That would put me off, and knowing that you had had a fiddle would up the estimate as there may be multiple faults by now. Telling me it is urgent would also put me off as you may be difficult to work for.

I replaced a drayton valve recently with exactly the same fault you describe. The valve body had become stiff and the actuator was unable to motor it fully over to ch only and make the microswitch. Replaced the entire valve with another Drayton for 135 all-in as it had easy access and an existing customer. The complete valve is ony a few quid more than the actuator on its own.

Try calling someone local who doesn't have to waste an hour travelling and you may get a result.

Or just do the job yourself - you seem competent and confident with the electrics and that is the part that scares most people.

Thanks for your vote of confidence. I will give it one more try before going in myself...

 

[Agile]

You don't need to normally turn off mains water to deal with a heating job.

Tony

 

[LKO]

Thanks Tony....
Hooting owl...does £135 mean including parts ? So I was right in trying to save money and not go with the £220 quote...

 

[HootingOwl]

The valve is 80 notes and I was in and out in less than 40 minutes so 55 labour. Regular and decent customer so they get a discount on labour. Most tradespeople will put an idiot tax on jobs where the customer comes over as pushy or a moaner - not to be spiteful but because these people are very able to waste a lot if your time before, during and after the job.

I am afraid to say that saying a job is urgent because you have a 2 y/old would incur the tax. .and buying your own parts also puts money on the price. I am not aware of any children having frozen to death due to no central heating in the last fifty years and if the parts you supply should happen to fail next week, who pays for the time spent verifying the failure and swapping over the failed component?

Not saying this to be nasty - just giving you a perspective from the other side. It puts you at the bottom of the list as easier more profitable work is out there.

Did you have a bash at putting the new valve on yourself?

 

[LKO]

The valve is 80 notes and I was in and out in less than 40 minutes so 55 labour. Regular and decent customer so they get a discount on labour. Most tradespeople will put an idiot tax on jobs where the customer comes over as pushy or a moaner - not to be spiteful but because these people are very able to waste a lot if your time before, during and after the job.

I am afraid to say that saying a job is urgent because you have a 2 y/old would incur the tax. .and buying your own parts also puts money on the price. I am not aware of any children having frozen to death due to no central heating in the last fifty years and if the parts you supply should happen to fail next week, who pays for the time spent verifying the failure and swapping over the failed component?

Not saying this to be nasty - just giving you a perspective from the other side. It puts you at the bottom of the list as easier more profitable work is out there.

Did you have a bash at putting the new valve on yourself?

Yes I did finally on the weekend. Couldnt have done it without the help on this forum. And the explaination above on how to be a better and not needy customer makes sense and will sure come in handy next time.

Luckily the actual valve seemed ok so could do with the motor head only. I didnt close the electrics unit till today because I wanted to see 1) everything work ok 2) test the electrics coming ok now and confirm voltages are now not jumping out of range.
The voltages seemed to be in order except for one scenario as below.
"Heating off at programmer, hot water on at programmer, cylinder stat calling:
Grey wire 0V
White wire 50-150V (getting 25V here)
Orange wire 240V
Valve spring returned to hot water only"
Is it something I should be worried about still ?