"Heckling" a scheme rep

[SimonH2]

If you knew you were going to be at a talk given by a rep from one of the main electrical trade schemes - to an audience (property owners) who have no idea that "the only way to ensure your electrics are safe is to only employ a member of <his scheme>" is a bit of a half truth ...

Would you be tempted to heckle either during or afterwards and point out the misdirections, half truths, and outright lies ? I've heard this person talk before, and yes some of the statements made were (at best) "misleading".
And would you be tempted to ask "difficult questions" designed to tease out the fact that the scheme is not really much more than a trade body ?

 

[JohnW2]

If you knew you were going to be at a talk given by a rep from one of the main electrical trade schemes - to an audience (property owners) who have no idea that "the only way to ensure your electrics are safe is to only employ a member of <his scheme>" is a bit of a half truth ...

Definitely.

Would you be tempted to heckle either during or afterwards and point out the misdirections, half truths, and outright lies ? I've heard this person talk before, and yes some of the statements made were (at best) "misleading".

Definitely - and probably 'during'.

And would you be tempted to ask "difficult questions" designed to tease out the fact that the scheme is not really much more than a trade body ?

Definitely.

Why are you asking such easy questions?

Kind Regards, John

 

[bernardgreen]

My reply is the same as John's

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Would you be tempted to heckle either during or afterwards and point out the misdirections, half truths, and outright lies ? I've heard this person talk before, and yes some of the statements made were (at best) "misleading".
And would you be tempted to ask "difficult questions" designed to tease out the fact that the scheme is not really much more than a trade body ?

It's all very well until he threatens to call security and have you ejected.

 

[SimonH2]

Not likely in the situation I have in mind - no security people anyway.
But then, nothing like getting thrown out to raise the profile - people then start wondering why the speaker was afraid to answer the questions


Just to be sure, as I read it, there are currently 3 full schemes (ELECSA, NAPIT, NICEIC, and BSI but I don't see how they fit into it), plus defined scope schemes from OFTEC and CORGI. Have I missed any ?

 

[ekmdgrf]

Probably best to nail them during the Q&A. "I note that you said x, y and z. Isn't it actually the case that...?"

 

[JohnW2]

... an audience (property owners) who have no idea that "the only way to ensure your electrics are safe is to only employ a member of <his scheme>" is a bit of a half truth ... And would you be tempted to ask "difficult questions" designed to tease out the fact that the scheme is not really much more than a trade body ?

This is, of course, not a situation peculiar to the operators of CP schemes. There are countless examples of situations in which much of the general public believe that 'trade organisations' are something very different from what they actually are. Classic Examples are the British Medical Association and Royal College of Nursing, both of which are actually trade unions, with the interests of their members being one of the main concerns. Many doctors are not members of the BMA, and many nurses are not members of the RCN, but that means absolutely nothing in relation to their competence.

Kind Regards, John

 

[stillp]

Shortly after Part P was introduced, I was stuck in traffic, behind a brand new van, signwritten with the details of a local electrical company, and the statement that "The new Part P Building Regulation means that all electrical work in your home must be undertaken by an NICEIC-registered electrician".
I phoned NICEIC, who couldn't see a problem! A call to Trading Standards was better received, and the next time I saw that van the offending statement had been removed.

 

[flameport]

Just to be sure, as I read it, there are currently 3 full schemes (ELECSA, NAPIT, NICEIC, and BSI but I don't see how they fit into it), plus defined scope schemes from OFTEC and CORGI. Have I missed any ?

In reality there are only two.
Certsure is both ELECSA and NICEIC, which leaves NAPIT as the only other one.

BSI have so few members as to make their offering totally pointless, assuming they are even still operating a scheme (I last looked a few years ago, when they had less than 200 members).

The other rabble with their 'defined scope' efforts are essentially useless, given that pretty much nothing is notifiable now anyway.

Full list here: https://www.gov.uk/competent-person...nd-how-schemes-are-authorised#current-schemes
scroll down to the 'electrical installations' section.

 

[JohnW2]

In reality there are only two.
Certsure is both ELECSA and NICEIC, which leaves NAPIT as the only other one. ... BSI have so few members as to make their offering totally pointless ...

Even if there are only two or three, it's a somewhat odd situation. When there is a 'regulated profession' (or, in this case, a regulated part of it!), one doesn't usually expect there to be a choice of what organisation/body one is regulated by! If there is only one 'regulator', at least there is likely to be a fair degree of 'uniformity' (of 'standards' etc.).

Kind Regards, John

 

[SimonH2]

Certsure is both ELECSA and NICEIC, which leaves NAPIT as the only other one.

Full list here: https://www.gov.uk/competent-person...nd-how-schemes-are-authorised#current-schemes
scroll down to the 'electrical installations' section.

One wonders how the h**l the average homeowner is supposed to keep track of things. "Benchmark, BSI, BESCA, Certsure, NAPIT, OFTEC, Stroma" - half of them I've never heard of (or at least never heard of in this context) ! Given the alphabet spaghetti of available schemes, it's no wonder people can be taken in easily by fake schemes and so on.
I don't think that much of Cor ... err Gas Safe - but at least everyone knows there's just the one scheme (don't they ?)

 

[SimonH2]

Probably best to nail them during the Q&A. "I note that you said x, y and z. Isn't it actually the case that...?"

Probably what I was going to do. I'll just have to make sure I've got paper and pen with me or I'll not remember

 

[bernardgreen]

Provided you only ask questions and make no allegations. explicit or implied they cannot evict you without admitting that there are things they do not want to be made public.

Not being able to answer ( or not wanting to answer ) a question says a lot more about the situation than a partial answer.

Of course if they refuse to answer you can follow up with " Is there a reason why you cannot ( or will not ) answer my question ? "

Another way to worry the speakers is to make it obvious that you are taking lots of detailed notes when they are speaking. Ask someone to repeat something and then make it obvious that you are using the repeat to check the notes you just made.

 

[SimonH2]

Well the talk has been - but unfortunately I didn't have too much opportunity to "grill" them (they were only the first of 3 different speakers). Their bit wasn't so much about the general stuff, but mostly about recent changes.

But apparently, the notification requirements are definitely part of "Part P", NICEIC are in no way similar to a trade body, and using an NICEIC member is a guarantee that the job is done right They cleared off before I asked why they thought their scheme was more reliable in that respect than that of Gas Safe.

I'll go better prepared next time

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'll go better prepared next time

Take a copy of Part P:

ask them if they can help you find it, because you can't see where it talks about notification.