Help with planning a cable run for data cables

[sevenupcan]

Ah yes I see. Makes more sense. Thinking about it now I'm guessing that not every thing that a house owner wants to do can be conceived and therefore to know what to do would be hard for someone to ascertain from the building regulations without the help of a subject expert like someone from building control.

 

[JohnW2]

Ah yes I see. Makes more sense. Thinking about it now I'm guessing that not every thing that a house owner wants to do can be conceived and therefore to know what to do would be hard for someone to ascertain from the building regulations without the help of a subject expert like someone from building control.

Yes, but the problem is that if the regulations etc. are silent on an issue, BCOs will generally be very hesitant to provide a personal opinion (particularly in writing) which might be open to debate/challenge. The risk is therefore that if they do give a ('personal opinion') answer, they are quite likely to err very much on the side of caution - which might well be contrary to the interests of the householder person doing the work. For example, if you asked your question about drilling holes in sole/head plates etc., they might respond "it's best if you don't drill any holes in them at all".

It's probably not so bad in relation to 'structural' issues like you are talking about, but in terms of electrical matters (which have only been part of the building regs for about 12 years), many BC departments have little or no relevant in-house "subject expertise" - which makes asking them questions about electrical matters even more 'dangerous'!

Kin d Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I can imagine how that conversation will go when I ask them to provide me with it in writing.

Have you ever done that or heard it being done?

True though that is, IF there are no explicit regs, or even guidelines (maybe there are?) then I very much doubt whether you would be able to get BC to commit themselves in writing to a ('bin ding') unqualified/"uncaveated" statement that something would comply. Verbally, perhaps, but in writing, I doubt it. ... and, of course, once one has asked the question, on cannot "un-ask" it!

So turn it round then.

Tell them what you propose to do, and then they have no choice but to say yes or no.

 

[deadshort]

Don't take this the wrong way, but you are future proofing against a dying technology. In 10 years time my guess is that data cables, will be all but obsolete, with the advancement of wireless technology, it wouldn't surprise me also if in 10 years time we aren't even bringing our broadband into our homes via cables and wires. Even the new 5G technology is capable of speeds of upto 20gbps, around 10 times the fastest speeds we have now and there is already plans for what I suppose will be called 6G.
In our house we run three laptops, two printers, two ipads, and three TVs all on a std virgin media wireless router and tp link extender(to cover the garden)

I would agree. No matter how much future-proofing you try to do, there will always be the unexpected ! However, if you install containment from 'box' to floor or loft that, at least, will give you a 'draw in' route.

I didn't use any rigid conduit

Untitled

• omega015
• 2 Aug 2013
• 1

Or spirit level …….. sorry

DS

 

[ban-all-sheds]

if you install containment from 'box' to floor or loft that, at least, will give you alighting

Are you saying he gets off on all this?

 

[JohnW2]

So turn it round then. ... Tell them what you propose to do, and then they have no choice but to say yes or no.

As I've said, the risk then is that, in the absence of any regs or guidelines they could use to protect their backsides, they will take the 'safest' course and say 'no' (or, in my experience, something a bit more vague like "probably not"!).

However, if you or the OP want to take that course, it's obviously up to you. If it were me, I think I would be fairly disinclined.

It's similar to a sort of situation I've often seen. Try getting a UK or EU medicines or medical devices control agency (it's a bit different in US) to tell you (and they usually charge £xxxx+ or €xxxx+ for even being asked!) whether, if the results are satisfactory, a proposed programme of research will be adequate to satisfy them that a product can be approved/ licensed/ marketed, they will usually reply along the lines "quite probably, but you cannot rely upon this; we will evaluate the adequacy of the research when it has been completed and submitted to us as part of an Application (£xxxxxx this time!), and will make a definitive decision at that time"!.

KInd Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

As I've said, the risk then is that, in the absence of any regs or guidelines they could use to protect their backsides, they will take the 'safest' course and say 'no' (or, in my experience, something a bit more vague like "probably not"!).

However, if you or the OP want to take that course, it's obviously up to you. If it were me, I think I would be fairly disinclined.

Unless you're looking at notifiable work where you need BC to agree that you've complied with Part A...

 

[JohnW2]

Unless you're looking at notifiable work where you need BC to agree that you've complied with Part A, in which case it's exactly what you want to hear. ... In writing. .... Before you start.

I didn't miss it, and I've already addressed it.

If you succeeded in getting 'what you wanted to hear', in writing, before you start, then that would be great (if it stated that what you proposed to do would definitely be regarded as compliant). However, as I've been saying, that is not necessarily how things will work out if you 'ask the question'.

In context, if it can be confirmed that there are no relevant regulations or guidelines then, if the OP didn't ask the question, I very much doubt anyone in BC would even give a thought to how the cables got through sole/head plates etc. - and, even if they did, I can't see how they could claim that it was non-compliant with some regulation (if there were no relevant regulations with which to comply).

Kind Regards, John

 

[flameport]

In 10 years time my guess is that data cables, will be all but obsolete, with the advancement of wireless technology

My prediction:
In a few years time, wireless will be all but unusable in many areas due to the proliferation of large numbers of appliances with wifi built in whether you want it or not. Think toasters, fridges, kettles, etc. - these things already exist and plenty more are on the way. With every device in every home all attempting to communicate, the result will be a shambling mess of continuous interference.

Mobile networks are hopeless - despite the industry rushing to implement 5G and whatever the next latest thing is, there are still huge areas where the existing 4G and 3G is not usable. Despite mobile operators claiming coverage, I know of several residential areas in Poole & Bournemouth where there is no signal of any kind and just making a simple phone call is impossible.
The first people to get such things always say they are fantastic - because they are probably the only ones using it. When 100 people in the same area try and use mobile data simultaneously, you will find it next to useless.

 

[chappers]

I have to disagree, go back ten years or even twenty to when I had my first mobile phone;
Firstly masts were few and far between and even if you were stood under one connection could be rubbish due to inferior devices, remember having to put your aerial up, move on a couple of years and signals improved as did devices, but contention was an issue, Now we have literally hundreds of times more devices on the networks but can you remember the last time you got a network busy message, it used to be virtually impossible to communicate over the mobile network at midnight on NYE.
Mobile networks are far from hopeless, maybe not as reliable as wired, but imho a small loss of functionality in return for huge convenience.
We at present have more devices than ever transmitting into the ether with less interference, when was the last time you heard your mobile giving you that interference on your telly or radio as it was trying to talk to the network.
I don't disagree that wired connections are more solid, but just don't believe that future wirefree connections are going to still be as inferior in 10 years time to warrant going to the effort of making provision for replacing them easily, what do you think you might replace them with, no ones spending lots of time and effort developing better wired connections at least not for domestic applications.

 

[endecotp]

what do you think you might replace (current wires) with, no ones spending lots of time and effort developing better wired connections at least not for domestic applications.

That's a surprising claim.

At my last place, I had 100 Mbit ethernet.
When i moved here I installed 1Gbit ethernet.
Now I have my first couple of devices with 10Gbit ports.
25 and 40 Gbit over twisted pair is starting to appear in exotic applications.

All of these technologies start in data centers, move into smaller businesses, and eventually into the home.

I have WiFi as well as wires, of course. In fact I have two wifi access points because one central box didn't reach the furthest corners due to thick walls, and the proximity of neighbours' networks. And the most difficult wiring I have installed was to connect to those wifi boxes.

 

[omega015]

Don't forget powerlines, while not as fast as other technologies they are pretty new and speed is increasing. This could be incorporated into more appliances easily too,as it has already in Sky Q boxes.

 

[sevenupcan]

Laying conduit or making precautions for the future isn't just about what happens if technology changes. For the relatively simple installation and up front planning I can save myself a lot of pain. I think the idea of threading cable through a conduit from the wall socket to the floor is at least the minimum I will do.

If I was building a house from scratch I would definitely plan some kind of cable routing from the start which would be a lot easier.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

My prediction:
In a few years time, wireless will be all but unusable in many areas due to the proliferation of large numbers of appliances with wifi built in whether you want it or not. Think toasters, fridges, kettles, etc. - these things already exist and plenty more are on the way. With every device in every home all attempting to communicate, the result will be a shambling mess of continuous interference.

Mobile networks are hopeless - despite the industry rushing to implement 5G and whatever the next latest thing is, there are still huge areas where the existing 4G and 3G is not usable. Despite mobile operators claiming coverage, I know of several residential areas in Poole & Bournemouth where there is no signal of any kind and just making a simple phone call is impossible.
The first people to get such things always say they are fantastic - because they are probably the only ones using it. When 100 people in the same area try and use mobile data simultaneously, you will find it next to useless.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Don't forget powerlines

Indeed not - this is the process to follow regarding that.

1. Read posts on this site about the technology.
2. Read material on the Internet about it.
3. Then forget it.