Hip not to corner of roof problem -Help

[tryanythingonceagain]

As a time served carpenter Ive been asked to frame a roof. Not that I have done many this but this seemed a simple project until viewing the drawings completed and passed. The roof is approx' 6m x 4m ridged to the wall as a leanto. West side is gabled the East hipped. The problem is that the east side WP hipped cut is 2.4m off the wall square and not the full 4m. meaning from the front the hip line is not to the outter corning but approx. 1.6 short & fiitted to the WP part way along & short of the corner so not geometry square meaning when completed the slate will be twisting on the front edge east side because the Jacks angle reduces to follow the hip line & become almost flat lined. This in turn means the pitch changes to less than the allowed pitch for the tiles & infact almost becomes I believe flat. The drawings have been passed & the B/inspector said it has to stay as is because of being passed unless we redraw & resubmit the plans costing more money. Please anyone, what are my options & is the roof frameable as is??? Start date is in a couple days when materials arrive. I have added two photos of the drawings which will help incase my discription is not full. Thanks in advance for any input.
George

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

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• tryanythingonceagain
• 8 May 2011
• 1

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• tryanythingonceagain
• 8 May 2011
• 1

Here's the photies, on another subject, you paid for those drawings!

 

[RedHerring2]

Sounds like a similar situation as mine, posted the day before:
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=273649

Apart from the hip rafters birdsmouth being skewed at an angle, rather than into the corner of the wallplate, and the wallplate won't be joined in that corner, which will mean taking care to fix the hip rafter securely to the wallplate. But I'll be using clips.
There will be required at least the 'rungs' of a gable ladder sticking through the wall as something to fix the facsis/soffit boards to. I don't foresee too much difficulty.
The fiddly bit will be the soffit/facsia angles.
There might be some fiddling required with the roof restraints in that area.

 

[noseall]

Surely the wall accommodating the wall plate on the hip return will be built higher creating what is known as a half hip detail?

Similar to this.....

 

[noseall]

Bah!

Beaten by a Herring.

 

[RedHerring2]

Sorry, Noseall, especially as your comments helped (and continue to help)me to understand my situation more comprehensively.

 

[tryanythingonceagain]

Surely the wall accommodating the wall plate on the hip return will be built higher creating what is known as a half hip detail?

Similar to this.....

Thanks Noseall
Confirms what I observed today on another roof. I have found myself looking at almost every roof trying to figger it out & then today after posting the question Im sat having lunch in Torquay when I notice all around me these same roofs which just have to be the answer. I sat there then trying to work out how to figuare out the height required for the w.p. to determine the height of the part gable. Not worked that out yet but still looking . If you can help there as well would be gratefully in your dept. But yes this is the way. & Ive been seeing these `half hipped` roofs all afternoon.... typicle.LOL
Thank you again. George

 

[RedHerring2]

I sat there then trying to work out how to figuare out the height required for the w.p. to determine the height of the part gable.

If you know the pitch of the roof and the distance from the ridge that the hip rafter intersects the wp, you should be able to work it out with trigonometry. Otherwise, when you've placed the common rafters, the hip rafter will be in the same plane as the commons. Where it intersects the wall, hey presto, your wp.

Unless I'm mistaken.

 

[noseall]

The height of the short hip side wall plate is easy to work out but you will have to build the rafters to the main roof first.

You can then actually use the main roof commons as a measuring guide by transferring the measurement of the short side rafters onto one of the commons and determine the plate height this way.

Confused??

Basically you will need to build the main roof right up to the point where you are ready to install the hip blade.

You can then pretend that the side wall is below these commons at the relevant distance from the wall and actually plumb up and dummy yourself using pencil lines exactly where the side plate is likely to hit.

 

[tryanythingonceagain]

I sat there then trying to work out how to figuare out the height required for the w.p. to determine the height of the part gable.

If you know the pitch of the roof and the distance from the ridge that the hip rafter intersects the wp, you should be able to work it out with trigonometry. Otherwise, when you've placed the common rafters, the hip rafter will be in the same plane as the commons. Where it intersects the wall, hey presto, your wp.

Unless I'm mistaken.

Hi
I dont think your mistaken. the pitch is not known until started but the distance is known so I think i will have to work it out on site with the common and then intersect to find the point of w.p end which I think will give me the finished height for the wall prior to w.p.
Im hoping this is the way to achieve the desired effect. And i think this what your suggestion also is, So thanks for confirming my thoughts. RH2 much appreciated.
George.

 

[noseall]

The height of the short hip side wall plate is easy to work out but you will have to build the rafters to the main roof first.

You can then actually use the main roof commons as a measuring guide by transferring the measurement of the short side rafters onto one of the commons and determine the plate height this way.

Confused??

Basically you will need to build the main roof right up to the point where you are ready to install the hip blade.

You can then pretend that the side wall is below these commons at the relevant distance from the wall and actually plumb up and dummy yourself using pencil lines exactly where the side plate is likely to hit.

Bumped.

 

[^woody^]

Why the hell has the designer/plan drawer not worked all this out and done some proper drawings

If you extend the wall plate sideways to a temporary point where the hip position would meet the plate, and then run a line back up to the house corner at the top of the new roof, this will show you where the hip will meet the higher wallplate at the side

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• ^woody^
• 8 May 2011
• 1

 

[tryanythingonceagain]

The height of the short hip side wall plate is easy to work out but you will have to build the rafters to the main roof first.

Bumped.

Yes i get the idea now
Thanks to all the helpers ALL info has been taken in... I hope
Much appreciated all round. Thanks
George

 

[tryanythingonceagain]

Why the hell has the designer/plan drawer not worked all this out and done some proper drawings

If you extend the wall plate sideways to a temporary point where the hip position would meet the plate, and then run a line back up to the house corner at the top of the new roof, this will show you where the hip will meet the higher wallplate at the side

Untitled

• ^woody^
• 8 May 2011
• 1

Hi woody. In answer to you question the drawings were completed apparently by a friend, we have all been there. The struggle I had which was cleared by all who helped including yourself was `what height the extended side wall to lay the new w.p. on` I could work it out. but now all is well. Thanks again.
Cheers G

 

[theoldun]

We would do it very similar to nose and the ancients, ball of string piece of chalk and a passing cloud. However if we asked our grandson, he would say, that’s easy pop, you know the run, rise and pitch from West to East, you know the run and pitch required from North to South, so calculate your rise (opposite) and that’s plate level.
Your drawings are more than adequate compared to some we have to work to.
oldun