Hive wiring question

24 Mar 2020
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United Kingdom

Logik 12 boiler with hot water tank with Myson MEP1c programmer.
Dual zone heating system- downstairs controlled by Myson wired stat in the hall and upstairs by wireless stat. (I only want to control the downstairs heating and HW at this time).
Now that we are all locked at home for the next few weeks I'm trying to install a Hive heating system I've had for a while.
When I install the dual Hive receiver using the wiring above I cannot get the Hive to take control of the central Heating- the Hive hub, receiver, and thermostat are working okay and the green lights on the receiver respond to the Hive thermostat but it won't override the stat in the hall; doesn't matter whether the hall stat is off or full on, the Hive receiver is doing nothing to heating.
The receiver does seem to turn the hot water on and off though.
There are a couple of grey and black wires behind the receiver that are linked together- I don't know what they do.

Much obliged for any advice anyone can offer! Thanks.
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Step one it work out how wired at the moment, in the main the thermostat is supplied from the programmer and in turn it supplies the motorised valve which in turn supplies the boiler, however really the idea is room temperature should be controlled by the thermostatic radiator valve (TRV) and the wall thermostat is designed to stop the boiler from cycling, so you can't guarantee how it is wired, some one may have decided to use some other method.

So quick look at the instructions and using search with some key words like OpenTherm and one sees it is an opentherm boiler, it is unlikely it is wired that way, but you can't be sure. The programmers instructions I found only seems to work the heating, not domestic hot water, but you say using a duel Hive, I would guess you have right hand brown same as it is with old programmer and the brown in number 3 goes with other browns to L and all blues to N and the link wire no longer required.

However I can't test and I can't see how that programmer could possibly work three zones, so job one is to work out how it is wired.
It seems I have been lead astray, the Myson MPRT is a programmable thermostat not a programmer. I have looked at the MPRT MS and the MPRT RF neither seems to line up with the internal pictures shown, the same base plate can be used for single, duel or three channel programmers, since terminals 1 and 2 are unused and 3 is linked to line I would assume one you show is a single channel wired back plate, Myson it seems does not use terminal 1 where Hive does not use thermal 4.

Step one is to work out what you already have, like I have done hunt the internet and find the installation instructions, user instructions are no good it does not tell up how to wire up, as said in original post once one knows what you have then one can start working out how to change it, I would assume it is not a combi boiler and you have three motorised valves, with some look @stem will get involved he seems to recognise the different makes, and models, I can in the main only go by what I find on the internet, however since your post was unanswered I thought I would try, I am an electrician not a plumber.
Hi,thanks for your reply. I don’t think that the programmer is actually doing any programming, it is just acting like a permanent on switch to the thermostats. All controlling is done at the thermostat end. The hive receiver does not seem to have any control over the power supply to the thermostats.
As you say I’m not sure how it has been wired, in particular what the grey and black wires are doing at the back of the programmer.
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So as I understand it. You have a an Myson MEP1 controlling only the hot water heating, ie this:


Then a Myson MPRT controlling the downstairs heating. ie this:


And a wireless version of the MPRT which looks the same (MPRT RF) but has a separate wired receiver controlling the upstairs heating like the below:

relay box.JPG

And you wish to replace only the wired MPRT controlling the downstairs heating with a Hive (if so Single Channel Version is required) is that correct?

However, I am puzzled why you want to do this. The MPRT is a reasonably sophisticated device, it has advanced control facilities that the Hive does not. It is smart in that it learns your heating requirements, varying start-up times to ensure that your home is warm at the time you want it to be, and saving energy. In my opinion you are replacing the Myson with something not as good.

Sorry I missed the two previous posts, I was typing when they came in.
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Thanks.yes it is not a combo and i have 3 motorised valves next to the hot water tank.
There is a brown wire in the programmer linking the live terminal to terminal 3 which I think powers the HW. I have removed that link with no effect on the CH.
Terminal 4 on the hive receiver is marked as CH ON which coincides with terminal 4 CH ON on the Myson programmer-see photo.


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Exactly as you describe! I’m sure the Myson is a not a ‘learning’ thermostat. It does its job quite well however I managed to get the Hive stuff at a really good price and i just fancied having the option of remote control using an app on the phone!
The problem you have is that the MEP is controlling the hot water and the MPRT the downstairs heating. The Dual Channel Hive does both in one unit. So, if the MEP and MPRT are not located closely together, then there could be some rewiring involved to bring the wiring from both together at a common point. Much will depend on how the original installer chose to wire the system.

Lets start with the MPRT. It should have wires going terminals like the drawing below, but with a cable cover over the top.


I would expect to see two wires connected, one in each of the bottom two terminals. Is this correct? and if so, where do the wires go and what is connected to the other end of them?

Info on the Myson stat below, AFAIK, unless it's been added recently, Hive doesn't have a learning algorithm:

Thanks for your time on this. The MPRT is how you describe with 2 wires into a wall. It is in the hall with the MEP 2 rooms away in the utility room. I now remember reading about the Myson smart Start!
The main thing I was wishing for was the remote control of the heating using the Hive; if that could be done then fine but if it’s too difficulty then obviously I’ll stick to what I have.
I do like the Hive idea of "heat on demand" not sure how well it works in practice, seen some poor reports, however for it to work you also need Hive TRV heads, at just under £40 each, but the eQ-3 heads seen at £7.50 each, and if using Drayton Wiser, Honeywell EvoHome, or Tado you can actually connect to boiler using the OpenTherm which Hive does not have.

I have also made errors, I got Nest, I started with Energenie MiHome TRV heads which claimed to work with Nest, I brought them from my old house, the new house had wiring problems, and Nest can control CH and DHW and be powered by two wires, which was one reason for getting it, the other was it was claimed to work with the TRV heads I already had.

It seems when Google and Nest combined, the support was withdrawn, so my expensive TRV heads are no better in many ways to my cheap TRV heads, in some ways worst, I love NOT needing a tablet, smart phone, or PC to control the heating, the Energenie MiHome TRV heads have a single button, and it is claimed initial default temperature to 16°C. and pressing the grey push button and holding it in for two seconds boosts the eTRV to the comfort temperature setting (21°C) for one hour. But with the really cheap eQ-3 I can set what I want as Eco and Comfort and when it returns to standard settings, the really cheap TRV head in most ways is far better than the more expensive one, cheap one has window open detection and actually tells you if the valve gets stuck or the travel is too much or too little, however the expensive ones (have found at £50 a pair but needs a hub as well) actually will tell me on my phone both target and current temperature and last summer I was using them to tell me if I needed to turn on the AC before returning home, and they will by using IFTTT work with geofencing, but as to if I leave home in a hurry unexpected for long enough to be worth while I am not so sure.

Since the Nest default was to use geofencing and occupancy detection I do use it, the big thing is should we have visitors the occupancy detection ensures when we go out, they are not left in the cold, but I never bother to open app when away from home to alter temperature, I know Hive has the ability to be altered from the phone, not sure if this is automatic like with Nest or if you have to manually adjust it? I simply would never bother taking my phone out to turn up central heating, to switch on AC yes as it takes time, as not a very big AC, but central heating no.

So now back to you, for Hive to be better than what you have you will need Hive TRV heads, these are three to four times the price of programmable TRV heads which don't link to the Hive wall thermostat, you can switch anything on/off with a phone using sonoff, found at £4.03 expect postage on top of that, so to simply turn heating on/off it does not need a wifi thermostat, and in real terms that is all that is needed.

Much depends on radiator sizes, but with central heating there is no need to heat all rooms together, so if for example when you get home you start cooking a meal then set it so kitchen heats first, if you buy a meal on way home set dinning room first, and if you sit back for a time then living room first, and heating one room at a time you can heat rooms very fast, as long as radiator is big enough, why any house has zone valves for heating I have not worked out, the TRV does a far better job with programmable heads, they are really zone valves, except unless linked to wall thermostat they don't start the boiler.

I cheat, my dining room is set to start warming up at 4 pm, so at 3 pm the wall thermostat reduces temperature, and at 4 pm it increases again so boiler is running at 4 pm. No wifi links, just set the times.
Great stuff, thanks for the info-some things to think about.
Looks like the Hive replacement is going to be too much of a faff with changes to wiring and not really worth the effort. Thanks to @stem for the info regarding the workings of the system.
I’ve got some sonoff switches controlling lights at the moment and I quite like the idea of a ‘Smart home’. I may go down the cheap trv route as you suggest as the Hive trvs seem well overpriced.
Looks like the Hive will be on Ebay soon!
I found there are it seems three stand alone TRV heads, the terrier i30 and two eqiva eQ-3 one with and one without blue tooth, I got the blue tooth version for £15 each, wife uses blue tooth, once the schedule was set, I find easier to press button or turn dial on the TRV its self.
Thanks for the info- I've has quick look on the internet at them - got plenty of time to browse the options over the next few weeks!
I can tell you about Energenie and eQ-3 as I use them. What I have found is speed matters, and speed is controlled by lock shield valve, so if open too wide it over shoots, and not enough and does not get warm enough so did need a few tweaks, it was easier with the energenie as it shows both target and current, but eQ-3 only shows target, however once set it worked great.

I am told the Drayton Wiser is smart and works out the speed, so it can bring a room to new temperature faster with out overshooting, how true I don't know, I tend to cheat set from 16 to 22 in morning and hour latter to 20 or it would take a couple of hours as anti hysteresis is a bit too good.
Feel free to shoot me down -the MPRT in the hall, which controls the downstairs heating, backs into a cupboard where I can probably access the 2 wires that Power it. The cupboard also has a 3 pin socket. Can I take the 2 wires from the MPRT, use them in the hive receiver and power it by a plug (or wire it into a socket) and then control the receiver with the hive thermostat? Just a thought!

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