Honda Izy HRG415C2 SDE starts then stops

[olneys]

Evening all

After another carb strip down, clean and re-assemble my lawn mower now starts-up...Hooray!

Unfortunately I now have a surging\hunting issue when running on the full 'hare' position and when I move the green throttle cable lever towards the 'tortoise' it does not reach it, only gets half way and then dies. It appears to hunt regardless of lever position except on choke.

When I inspect the side of the mower when running, I can see that the governor arm is rocking from side to side and hence the throttle valve is moving and causing the hunting.

Does anyone know how I can cure this issue....t would be very much appreciated, I'm over one hurdle, just got to get over this one!

cheers

olneys

 

[Mursal]

Unless you just have a linkage in the wrong hole on the butterfly control? Otherwise try it cutting, as some tend to hunt a little when idle. Ensure you have air filter in place to run smooth.

Does it die because it hits the cutoff switch, or because it cant tick-over?

 

[olneys]

Hello Mursal

Linkage rods are all located correctly, and air filter fitted as normal.

The cut-off switch for this model of lawnmower is controlled by a separate handle bar cable, I need to hold it in to start the engine. When the engine is started the blade rotates, I know the newer models give you the option to dis-engage the blade and change the grass hopper without stopping the engine every time.

Anyway, when I start the engine on full choke it runs fine but soon as I move the throttle cable to full rpm the surging starts, the governor arm starts its rocking trying to regulate the fuel\air intake.The surging continues as I move the throttle cable towards the idle position on the lever (tortoise) but the engine will die before I get there.

For example, if the throttle lever moved from 10 to 0 (full rpm to idle), then on my mower the lever only ever gets to 5 and then the engine dies.

So I think I have two issues at the moment -

1. What is causing the surging?

2. Throttle cable out of adjustment - how do I re-adjust this?

As always any help would be much appreciated.

olneys

 

[olneys]

Sorry, I forgot to add that the mower continues to surge when cutting the lawn. When the mower is stationary, the surge on full rpm will cause it to move or twist on every surge, so the surge is quite violent.

 

[Mursal]

Have you control of where the clamp is positioned on the outer cable down at the governor linkages? This will shift the control positions on the handle, so pull it out or lengthen the working part of the outer cable.
if you cant move the outer cable, can you move the inner one on the linkages, maybe to a different hole?

 

[olneys]

Sorry, I not sure what you are asking me to check, with regard to 'outer cable' are you referring to the 'throttle cable'? and with regard to the 'inner cable' are you referring to the 'governor spring'?

 

[Mursal]

Sorry, the outer throttle cable will be clamped at the bottom or goes against a stop? The inner throttle cable will be adjusted when you move the outer cable fixing point. Giving you more or less control at the control handle. Or at least moving the control points

Sorry about that .....................

 

[Burnerman]

So long as throttle cable allows you to get full choke, it can be considered to be in adjustment.
I still think the problem is in the fuel supply...the fuel level in the float bowl gets low, the motor starts to die and the governor opens up to compensate - the motor gulps the extra fuel, revs up and so things continue.
If the motor seems somewhat happier on half or 3/4 choke, that may be a clue.
John

 

[olneys]

Mursal\BM

Thanks for your continued input, very much appreciated.

BM - I think you may be right on this one.

I borrowed my Fathers honda yesterday and half way through cutting my lawn it started to surge for a couple of minutes and die, due to it running out of fuel. My mower indeed follows this pattern minus the death of the engine and hence the fuel supply looks a prime suspect.

With your experience, have you ever needed to replace the carb on these honda's for a fuel intake issue or would you be leaning towards a supply issue from the tank?
I know the tank contains a small filter, could this have a bearing on the flow and if so, how do you normally clean it out?

olneys

 

[Burnerman]

Hello again!
For sure, I've never had to replace one of these carburettors....the only problem I have encountered is the snapping off of the lead tipped idle adjustment screw - lever it at your peril! If you do need to remove it, then cut the end of the lead stop away to allow it to be unscrewed.
So - the tank does have a filter - its just above the fuel pipe outlet. Its an integral gauze and cant be removed - although it can be seen!
Next, the fuel tap.....if you disconnect the outlet, turn the tap on and the fuel runs at full bore, both this and the filter must be ok.
Personally I think the needle valve is either obstructed above in its housing, or the float isn't pulling it open.
Tip - check with the other machine that the float bowl has the same orientation....some makes are stepped and that does prevent the float dropping fully (but I don't think this is an Izy problem).
Carbs are available - I'm pretty sure - from GHS on ebay....very reasonably priced!
Would your Dad loan you his carb to test? Or maybe his machine is another Honda.
John

 

[olneys]

Evening BM

I can confirm fuel flow is full bore to the carb.
With regard to the float bowl, mine has a step which is uniform all the way around the bowl and hence I cannot see how this would impair the float movement, I could understand if one side was stepped.
Can I also just check with you that the float movement in the carb is relatively small, I'm talking about just a very small flick of the finger type movement and the needle when viewed seems to only drop down a tiny amount, as I cannot see the needle seat?

I have a GCV 135 engine on my IZY and my Dad's is a GCV 160 on a HRX426QX and both carbs are the same. His mower at the moment purrs like a cat and hence I am reluctant to pull it off, even though I have already thought about it.

Unless I can get my carb to work then I will be happy to leave my Dads in tact and take the hit and purchase a new one. I've just had a look on ebay, going price for a non-honda carb £22, are these non-honda parts any good? (I see lings sell the genuine for approx £60)

olneys

 

[Burnerman]

Its a wee bit difficult to determine how much movement the carb float should have....the plastic float is pivotted on its own pin, and it is its own weight that helps to pull the needle valve open.
With the carb in place, but the float bowl off, there should be a strong flow of fuel through the needle valve. Thats normally enough to determine that this part of the carb is working fine. Whether the fuel level in the bowl is correct is impossible to determine from here, of course! Your symptoms indicate that the fuel level is too low, if anything - but this level isn't adjustable and should be fine, if the float is in good condition.
You are certain that the needle is fitted correctly, so that the notch in it is engaged with the float?
Personally I have no problem with using pattern parts....from a reputable supplier I use little else, as the genuine Honda item is often priced beyond belief.
I'd be inclined to try your Dad's carb first, but although they may look the same, the main jet and emulsion tube could well be different sizes.
At this point I'd be inclined to go for a replacement carburettor, if everything checks out.
John

 

[olneys]

You are certain that the needle is fitted correctly, so that the notch in it is engaged with the float?

You've got me thinking again..The notch on the needle slides into a grove between the rails, but I would say it sits rather then engages with the float. Does this sound right?

 

[Mursal]

Sounds about right, had trouble with the needle before, but it failed open and the engine flooded all the time.

If you disconnect the controls to the carburetor and manually control the revs. This will rule out the governor controls as a cause.

If it doesn't take the revs well look at carburetor fuel/air flow.

Or just swap the lawnmowers.......................

 

[Burnerman]

You are certain that the needle is fitted correctly, so that the notch in it is engaged with the float?

You've got me thinking again..The notch on the needle slides into a grove between the rails, but I would say it sits rather then engages with the float. Does this sound right?

The notch in the needle fits into a fork formed on the upper part of the float.
As the float actually falls in an arc around its pin there has to be clearance as the needle moves just up and down in its housing.
So long as the float falls and pulls the needle down with it, all should be ok.
You haven't left a washer out between the float chamber and the bottom nut, (outside) have you?
John