Hot Water Cylinder Problem

[Chris18]

In November 2011 I had a Gledhill Envirofoam Stainless Steel Water Clylinder (1050x450) installed having been told these have a longer life than traditional copper.

In July I went away for a few days and when I came back the outside of the cylinder was wet and there was water on the floor supporting the cylinder in the airing cupboard. I assumed this was a one off event as until then I had not experienced any problems and just dried it.

For the next few weeks everything was fine but yeterday I returned from a short break to find water on the cylinder and supporting floor again.

On both occasions I had turned off the hot water heating whilst away.

There is clearly a problem but as the cylinder if fully enclosed I cannot check it. I did find that there was some water around the top of the foam lagging where the immersion heater fits but there was no water in the actual immersion heater cap.

My initial thought is that there is probably some sort of fracture in the cylinder which with the water heated is sealed but without any heating to expand the cylinder the fracture leaks, probably on the top near the immersion heater.

I have checked this morning before posting an everything is dry.

It was purchased online through bhs-home improvements in Southampton but I am not sure if I still have the original invoice (I need to look thoroughly) or if they would have a record of my purchase. I believe that some Gledhill products have a 10 year warranty and it is possible mine has but how to check?? I know that the plumber who installed the cylinder would remember the job as he has done several jobs for me over the years but unfortunately at the moment he is hard to get hold of.

I would be grateful for any comments/help on what the problem might be and how to resolve it, ideally of course without the expense of a new cylinder unless this can be replaced under a warranty claim. I would of course still have the labour costs to cover.

Also, if I have to have a new cylinder and can't contact my normal plumber which is the best way of finding a reliable and hopefully reasonable plumber.

Thanks

 

[dilalio]

Can you take some photos of the install?

Also, before you go suspecting the cylinder, make sure that you do not have a problem higher up, i.e: in the loft and water is not just running down pipework, to collect at the cylinder and then run down and around it! The fact that this has happened twice while you've been away could suggest a problem with a ball valve in the CWS in the loft (which I assume you have and is likely directly above the cylinder). You have mains pressure supplied to those ball valves and with no water being drawn off when the house is empty and supply pressure fluctuating between night and day, it just might be the source of your problem!

Edit: with hot water turned off, it may even be condensation!

 

[Nige F]

As per Dilalio - picture looking down @ the top of cyl. and immersion

 

[Chris18]

Hi, thanks for the replies. Firstly good news is I have found the original invoice from bhs-home improvements and included with that is a flyer from Gledhill quoting a 10 year warranty.

As regards an overflow from the CWS that can be discounted because a) there is no staining on the ceiling and b) there are towels etc stored above the cylinder and these are all dry.

Interested in the theory about condensation as there seemed more water than I would expect just for that, perhaps you could explain and how I would test for that.

As requested here are some photos of the installation which I hope are helpful..

 

[Dan Robinson]

One wonders if that immersion is suitable for use with a stainless steel cylinder.

 

[dilalio]

You need to try and recreate the conditions that resulted in the pooling of water. I strongly believe this is due to no water usage in the property during your absence!
Go around every fitting with a dry finger and see if you get even the slightest evidence of wetness - using a dark blue paper tissue (like you get on garage forecourts ) is good for this.
Check the gland on that stopcock isn't weeping too!

Edit: you'd be surprised at how much water can run (undetected) down the back of a pipe, without touching and staining any surfaces, to collect at a lower point yards away from the source!

 

[Chris18]

Thanks will do as you say as best I can (can only recreate conditions but now having any hot water for a week) but still uncertain how water from say a weeping stop cock would end up on the top of the cylinder. Also, just for clarity our neighbours had watered the garden in our absence so some water was being drawn off.

 

[75pete]

The use of paper as said is worth a try even now your at home. Tie some paper around each possible pipe and inspect. Leave it in place over night etc.

 

[AGAS]

Mmmm not sure your immersion is going to last ?

 

[bernardgreen]

Tie some paper around each possible pipe and inspect.

Draw some straight lines on the paper using water soluble ink. If the paper gets wet then the ink will run. The smudge lines will be there even if the paper dries out before you can inspect it

 

[Chris18]

Mmmm immersion not going to last

Never use the immersion but why would it not last??

 

[Chris18]

Draw some straight lines on the paper using water soluble ink. If the paper gets wet then the ink will run. The smudge lines will be there even if the paper dries out before you can inspect it

Not sure I have any ink but have followed advice and placed paper around various joints and the stop cock.

 

[dilalio]

OP: don't rule out condensation!

We had a suspected leaking internal stack we'd installed at a refurb last week, which turned out to be a combination of...
Muggy weather and freshly painted whole interior causing the rising main to sweat inside the open soil stack bulkhead... At some point (in the ceiling) this touched the plastic soil pipe and resulted in rivulets of water running down the stack where it could be seen in the kitchen and was mistaken for a leak!

 

[AGAS]

We had a suspected leaking internal stack we'd installed at a refurb last week, which turned out to be a combination of...
Muggy weather and freshly painted whole interior causing the rising main to sweat inside the open soil stack bulkhead... At some point (in the ceiling) this touched the plastic soil pipe and resulted in rivulets of water running down the stack where it could be seen in the kitchen and was mistaken for a leak!

I've had the same ( condensation ) on an instantaneous water heater which he was adamant was a leaking boiler, its surprising how much water that can be created from condensation

 

[Roger928]

Mmmm not sure your immersion is going to last ?

Surely its gledhills incaloy immersion factory fitted?