No Water after 4 plumber visits please help!!!

[HERTS P&D]

When you turn the red dial clockwise, can you hear a click?

Andy

 

[Archie Faulks]

When you turn the red dial clockwise, can you hear a click?

Andy

Hi Andy,
Yes i can
Archie

 

[Gasguru]

That looks a rough installation and some aspects are non compliant...did Gledhill leave you documentation highlighting the problems?
Did you get any building control notice for the new cylinder instalation?
The lower element is designed to run off a cheaper night rate and the upper element for top-ups at peak rate.
Poor wiring too.
Post a pic of the inlet set...that's the lump above the blue isolating valve.

 

[Gasguru]

Nor that it would stop the heating but looks like L & N are reversed on the 2nd pic.

 

[JimCrow]

The neutral wire is in the live terminal,

 

[Archie Faulks]

That looks a rough installation and some aspects are non compliant...did Gledhill leave you documentation highlighting the problems?
Did you get any building control notice for the new cylinder instalation?
The lower element is designed to run off a cheaper night rate and the upper element for top-ups at peak rate.
Poor wiring too.
Post a pic of the inlet set...that's the lump above the blue isolating valve.

Thanks Gasguru, for getting back to me.
See the inlet set attached. What i have noticed in taking that photo is that i wasrunning the immersion heater to check and have noticed that a couple of the pipes have some water on them. Not a lot a few drops each but that only started happening when i turned the immersion heaters on... Don't know if that means anything.
Gledhill don't know what the problem is, they kept telling me different things but all have now been ruled out.
Unfortunately no record of the instillation apart from a small sticker on the tank saying when it happened. I emailed and called the previous owner but he hasn't go back to me.
Best,
Archie

 

[Archie Faulks]

then the hot water is going somewhere.

feel the pipes when you have not run a hot tap for half an hour. they should be cold.

edit

if you can't see and hear a leak, it might be a pipe under the floor, or running to your fishpond. As well as water, there will be heat and (in cold weather) steam.

Hi John,
Have done so and yes they are now cold. Okay thanks for this.
The reason why i don't think there is leak is that one would expect the pipe taking the hot water from the immersion heater to heat up considerably however upon touching it after multiple hours of immersion heater usage it is still tepid.
Archie

 

[terryplumb]

Is water running through the tundish ( black plastic thing on copper pipes ,to the right of the immersion heaters ) ?
If not , turn off your mains cold water stopcock and leave off for an hour ,whilst immersion heater is on. After 1 hour turn on the stopcock and Tel us if you now have hotter water from taps.

 

[Gasguru]

It's almost certainly an illegal installation and Gledhill have washed their hands of it.
The wiring is very poor...cable clamp not utilised, reversed polarity, huge lengths of free cable etc
That inlet set doesn't seem to match any Gledhill parts I can find on the web...it looks very old.
The blue expansion relief valve should be plumbed in BEFORE the tundish but since they've fitted the assembly too low they've bodged it in.
There's no balanced cold feed to the taps/outlets...that can be an issue when the cold pressures is much higher.
The safety discharge pipework on the left near the floor should have a fall on it...where does that go and it it the correct size (it's not unusual to require 28mm pipework).
I find it odd that Gledhill have even agreed to take a look...whoever turned up were they just a recommendation from them?
As above turn off the valve below the inlet set and see what happens after a few hours of heating.

 

[oldbuffer]

1. The black plastic piece inserted into the pipework coming out of the Temperature and Pressure Relief Valve (TPRV) is called a tun dish. Its purpose is to show if any water is escaping from the TPRV thus indicating a fault.
2. The piece of pipe below the tun dish is called the "D2" pipe, and should be a minimum of 300 mm long after the tun dish before any bends or fittings.
3. There is a combination valve fitted which controls the incoming cold water. This:
3a. Also has a pressure relief valve (PRV). This valve should be connected to the D2 pipe or another separate pipe fulfilling the same function. The connection should be before the first tun dish, or a separate tun dish should be used.
3b. As it is, you will not have visible evidence if the combination valve's PRV operating.
3c. Because the combination valve has not been fitted above the level of the top of the cylinder, maintenance of the valve, which should be annual, will partial drain down of the cylinder.
4. The immersion heaters have two thermostats:
4a. The one with a dial which you use to set the temperature.
4b. An overheat thermostat, which turns the power off if the water overheats. This has to be reset by pressing in the red button which appears to be under the main thermostat setting disc. Your second immersion photograph shows this button.
5. Check that both overheat thermostat buttons have been reset.
6. I would also suggest you set the main thermostats to "5" rather than maximum, in case they are allowing the immersions to heat locally to a temperature at which they trigger the overheat thermostats.
7. Beyond that, as others have said, water is running away somewhere.
8. If all else fails, I'd be tempted to fit a full bore lever valve in the hot water outlet. Close it, turn the heaters on, and if the water then heats its an issue elsewhere in your water system. Possibly a mixer tap feeding cold back into the hot.

 

[BlueLoo]

Here you are Andy
Best.
Archie

This was done by a qualified electrician?
What else did he do?

Looks shocking.
I'd be checking right back to the feed supplying the two switches.
And everything else.

Having the meter spin with little product (heat) is very weird. Is it an old disk meter?
@electricians, is this a phasing thing from cross wiring two resistive AC loads? (dunno)

 

[Archie Faulks]

1. The black plastic piece inserted into the pipework coming out of the Temperature and Pressure Relief Valve (TPRV) is called a tun dish. Its purpose is to show if any water is escaping from the TPRV thus indicating a fault.
2. The piece of pipe below the tun dish is called the "D2" pipe, and should be a minimum of 300 mm long after the tun dish before any bends or fittings.
3. There is a combination valve fitted which controls the incoming cold water. This:
3a. Also has a pressure relief valve (PRV). This valve should be connected to the D2 pipe or another separate pipe fulfilling the same function. The connection should be before the first tun dish, or a separate tun dish should be used.
3b. As it is, you will not have visible evidence if the combination valve's PRV operating.
3c. Because the combination valve has not been fitted above the level of the top of the cylinder, maintenance of the valve, which should be annual, will partial drain down of the cylinder.
4. The immersion heaters have two thermostats:
4a. The one with a dial which you use to set the temperature.
4b. An overheat thermostat, which turns the power off if the water overheats. This has to be reset by pressing in the red button which appears to be under the main thermostat setting disc. Your second immersion photograph shows this button.
5. Check that both overheat thermostat buttons have been reset.
6. I would also suggest you set the main thermostats to "5" rather than maximum, in case they are allowing the immersions to heat locally to a temperature at which they trigger the overheat thermostats.
7. Beyond that, as others have said, water is running away somewhere.
8. If all else fails, I'd be tempted to fit a full bore lever valve in the hot water outlet. Close it, turn the heaters on, and if the water then heats its an issue elsewhere in your water system. Possibly a mixer tap feeding cold back into the hot.

Thanks so much for this, very helpful in understanding. Will try all the above and let you know how i get on.
All the best,
Archie

 

[Archie Faulks]

It's almost certainly an illegal installation and Gledhill have washed their hands of it.
The wiring is very poor...cable clamp not utilised, reversed polarity, huge lengths of free cable etc
That inlet set doesn't seem to match any Gledhill parts I can find on the web...it looks very old.
The blue expansion relief valve should be plumbed in BEFORE the tundish but since they've fitted the assembly too low they've bodged it in.
There's no balanced cold feed to the taps/outlets...that can be an issue when the cold pressures is much higher.
The safety discharge pipework on the left near the floor should have a fall on it...where does that go and it it the correct size (it's not unusual to require 28mm pipework).
I find it odd that Gledhill have even agreed to take a look...whoever turned up were they just a recommendation from them?
As above turn off the valve below the inlet set and see what happens after a few hours of heating.

Thank you.
Okay very irritating of them! Clearly installation all over the shop and bad from the previous owner of the property to let it get to such a state.
It was Gledhill response team so officially from them, but i doubt they installed it themselves.
I willtry turning the valve inlet set off and heaters on and will let you know what happens.
Really appreciate your help
Best,
Archie

 

[Archie Faulks]

Is water running through the tundish ( black plastic thing on copper pipes ,to the right of the immersion heaters ) ?
If not , turn off your mains cold water stopcock and leave off for an hour ,whilst immersion heater is on. After 1 hour turn on the stopcock and Tel us if you now have hotter water from taps.

Thanks Terry. There is no water running through the Tundish. I will try this and let you know what happens.
Best,
Archie

 

[JimCrow]

Also the cylinder base is not fully supported, just sitting on a lump of 3"x2".