How to install fire door closer

[robinbanks]

Yes, me too and the beauty of them is even if you can't adjust them enough to close a really heavy door then you can fit more than one.

Yeah but be honest, they're crap.

They slam doors at high speed; if you've fitted two to slam a fire door at high speed then you're gonna take a toddler's fingers off, and until it does it's going to irritate everyone else in the apartment block every time someone goes through it

Have a conscience and fit something better that slows the close


"Knocking elderly people"

Another good reason, thanks

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Should have fitted a DDA compliant one by the sounds of it, instead of skimping.

 

[jj4091]

Yeah but be honest, they're crap.

They slam doors at high speed; if you've fitted two to slam a fire door at high speed then you're gonna take a toddler's fingers off, and until it does it's going to irritate everyone else in the apartment block every time someone goes through it

Have a conscience and fit something better that slows the close


"Knocking elderly people"

Another good reason, thanks

Not in my experience of them

 

[robinbanks]

Not in my experience of them

And that's what counts, right? "Well, I can see how it could seriously injure someone, but I never saw it happen yet, so it's OK"

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Not in my experience of them

You realise the main reason they (Building Control) relaxed the need for door closers for houses with loft conversions was because of the number of hospital admissions for kids squashed fingers right? Along with homeowners subsequently removing them.

 

[jj4091]

And that's what counts, right? "Well, I can see how it could seriously injure someone, but I never saw it happen yet, so it's OK"

Your comment sounds sarcastic, so I suspect you either don't know how to adjust them properly or which situations they are best suited to. When combined with rise and fall hinges they only neeed to be set to the mininmum tension in order to overcome the latch once the door gets to the closed position. I have never installed one that couldn't be adujusted so that it did not slam shut. Admittedly as the door goes into the rebate it could bang but this would be prevented by the seals that should be present on a fire door that is installed correctly. AND DON'T MAKE QUOTES OF THINGS I NEVER SAID !!!. I would think mind reading is another skill youi do not possess.

 

[johnny2007]

Your comment sounds sarcastic, so I suspect you either don't know how to adjust them properly or which situations they are best suited to. When combined with rise and fall hinges they only neeed to be set to the mininmum tension in order to overcome the latch once the door gets to the closed position. I have never installed one that couldn't be adujusted so that it did not slam shut. Admittedly as the door goes into the rebate it could bang but this would be prevented by the seals that should be present on a fire door that is installed correctly. AND DON'T MAKE QUOTES OF THINGS I NEVER SAID !!!. I would think mind reading is another skill youi do not possess.

I agree with this.
If the latch is fitted correctly and closes smoothly, these door closes can be set to gently close the door shut.
Said this, fire doors are heavy, so even a closing very gently on kids fingers can cause injury.
I have seen half doughnut foam blocks that slide on doors so they don't close and leave a gap preventing fingers from getting trapped.
But these need to be removed every time you go out or go to bed, otherwise there's no point having fire doors.

 

[robinbanks]

DON'T MAKE QUOTES OF THINGS I NEVER SAID !!!

My quote of what you said was in a blue box, with your name at the top. It was verbatim from your post

Underneath it "in speech marks" is my paraphrase/take on what your opinion is; you're worshipping a £5 spring loaded slam closer like it's adequate to safely and controllably close a heavy door from any opening angle. It isn't.

The regs have moved on, move in step. Better closers exist; have a conscience and recommend their use

But these need to be removed every time you go out or go to bed, otherwise there's no point having fire doors

Mmm, I think you should be open with an opinion about whether that actually happens. It's all very well giving additional workarounds and rules that need to be followed to help mitigate crap solutions like cheapo slam closers, but deep down I think you know that people won't adhere to them. People don't; life is hard enough without opting in to paths of more resistance. The Highway Code still advocates only flashing your lights to let the other road user know you're there. Do you know anyone who follows that and doesn't use a flash to mean "proceed with the course of action I assume you're going to take"?

If one is going to fit crap closers and then fit more things to stop the crap closers actually closing the door, one should perhaps just not fit the crap closers in the first place, not risk the kids fingers / the elderly people's anything, and then have a policy of going and closing the doors when they should be closed (notionally no different to removing the foams)

If you didn't remove the foam U, and a fire started, would it burn the U away so the crap closer could then close the door?

Or should we just advocate fitting decent closers?

 

[jj4091]

My quote of what you said was in a blue box, with your name at the top. It was verbatim from your post

Underneath it "in speech marks" is my paraphrase/take on what your opinion is; you're worshipping a £5 spring loaded slam closer like it's adequate to safely and controllably close a heavy door from any opening angle. It isn't.

The regs have moved on, move in step. Better closers exist; have a conscience and recommend their use

You seem to be very good at making huge assumptions about things that you know nothing. Sorry but you are going on the naughty step.

 

[johnny2007]

My quote of what you said was in a blue box, with your name at the top. It was verbatim from your post

Underneath it "in speech marks" is my paraphrase/take on what your opinion is; you're worshipping a £5 spring loaded slam closer like it's adequate to safely and controllably close a heavy door from any opening angle. It isn't.

The regs have moved on, move in step. Better closers exist; have a conscience and recommend their use


Mmm, I think you should be open with an opinion about whether that actually happens. It's all very well giving additional workarounds and rules that need to be followed to help mitigate crap solutions like cheapo slam closers, but deep down I think you know that people won't adhere to them. People don't; life is hard enough without opting in to paths of more resistance. The Highway Code still advocates only flashing your lights to let the other road user know you're there. Do you know anyone who follows that and doesn't use a flash to mean "proceed with the course of action I assume you're going to take"?

If one is going to fit crap closers and then fit more things to stop the crap closers actually closing the door, one should perhaps just not fit the crap closers in the first place, not risk the kids fingers / the elderly people's anything, and then have a policy of going and closing the doors when they should be closed (notionally no different to removing the foams)

If you didn't remove the foam U, and a fire started, would it burn the U away so the crap closer could then close the door?

Or should we just advocate fitting decent closers?

Read my post again

 

[robinbanks]

It doesn't appear to have changed since the first time I read it, and I don't disagree with it but my opinion remains that installing a crap solution, then having to perform regular and consistent workarounds to mitigate the crap solution, is overall worse than going to the effort of making a good solution.


Was there a particular part of your post you wish to draw attention to? If so, you can highlight the relevant part of it and press the little quote button that appears next to the highlight; it's good forum etiquette to not quote an entire post, particularly if it is long, just to add a few words of response that don't really relate to any of it.

 

[johnny2007]

It doesn't appear to have changed since the first time I read it, and I don't disagree with it but my opinion remains that installing a crap solution, then having to perform regular and consistent workarounds to mitigate the crap solution, is overall worse than going to the effort of making a good solution.


Was there a particular part of your post you wish to draw attention to? If so, you can highlight the relevant part of it and press the little quote button that appears next to the highlight; it's good forum etiquette to not quote an entire post, particularly if it is long, just to add a few words of response that don't really relate to any of it.

Maybe I wasn't clear.
Whatever closer you fit, kids fingers trapped in a soft closing heavy door can result in injuries.
The concealed closers, if fitted correctly can close the door without slamming it; hinges must be lined properly and latch must be of good quality so it doesn't need any force to close.
So, my point is that no matter what you fit, there's always potential risk of injury to little fingers.
I agree that especially in domestic situations people do things that effectively nullify safety devices' action, but you can't stop that.
The foam U shaped blocks are something I have seen but need to be removed as soon as the kids are safely away from that door.
I know that this doesn't always happen and people just leave them permanently in place.

 

[RP06]

Fingers can be trapped on any doors, but with the concealed door closers, in my opinion there is a higher risk of trapping fingers. I have fitted the overhead closers personally for this site, as we really have a lack of understanding here on how to close them, and there was a loud banging, we find the overhead ones easier at this site for the elderly, as we can reduce the closing time meaning they can get out the way before injury's occur (usually). Once again, I appreciate everyone's understanding and assistance with this Job. (There is still a cupboard/storage door which i will most likely refit the concealed door closers as, that door is not usually opened apart from when cleaning.)

 

[robinbanks]

you know nothing

I find your assertion unpersuasive

The concealed closers, if fitted correctly can close the door without slamming it

There's the point I disagree on; the undamped force they apply relates to the preload on the spring. You preload it a little and it works well to close the door gently when it's open to a large angle, but it won't close the door from a small angle. You preload it more so it closes the door effectively from a small angle and it slams it when opened to a large angle

I'm afraid you're never going to convince me that a 5 quid solid Chinesium door closer is in any way comparable to to an overhead, variably damped closer, particularly when considering risk of injury to vulnerable users

Damped concealed closers exist, but they are in a completely different league to the one being discussed

 

[opps]

Damped concealed closers exist, but they are in a completely different league to the one being discussed

I didn't know that, thanks.

Do you have any links?

If they are not stupidly expensive, I might recommend one to the landlord of my local boozer.