Hydrogen Fuel Cell
- Thread starter Hysteresis
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namsag
Stick them in the oven before the gas runs out 
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STOP - STOP - STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I also know the laws of physics and the process of combustion and fission produces more energy than is put into it - thats how it works. I also realise thet the energy put into it was done millions of years ago and we are recovering a little bit of what was put in all those years ago. Methane is the same system .
All of this thread has lost its way before it has even started to address the question I originally had.
Has anyone any idea of the source of this Hydrogen system which recovers the Hydrogen from essentially Methane (CH4) and some how gets the carbon content manageable even in gaseous form.
Lets not all get carried away with side issues of Oil running out etc etc, Natural Gas/Methane will also run out but if we can get 25% more out of what is left that can't be bad.
BUT WHAT IS THIS SYSTEM TO WHICH I REFER - I read about it somewhere and maybe it is a pile of old TOSH, but does anyone have any really constructive replies to put me out of my ignorance and misery.
I also know the laws of physics and the process of combustion and fission produces more energy than is put into it - thats how it works. I also realise thet the energy put into it was done millions of years ago and we are recovering a little bit of what was put in all those years ago. Methane is the same system .
All of this thread has lost its way before it has even started to address the question I originally had.
Has anyone any idea of the source of this Hydrogen system which recovers the Hydrogen from essentially Methane (CH4) and some how gets the carbon content manageable even in gaseous form.
Lets not all get carried away with side issues of Oil running out etc etc, Natural Gas/Methane will also run out but if we can get 25% more out of what is left that can't be bad.
BUT WHAT IS THIS SYSTEM TO WHICH I REFER - I read about it somewhere and maybe it is a pile of old TOSH, but does anyone have any really constructive replies to put me out of my ignorance and misery.
Is this what you were looking for?
http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/blog...onomy/chp-fuel-cell-boilers-boon-for-britain/
http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/blog...onomy/chp-fuel-cell-boilers-boon-for-britain/
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Thanks Tim
I think that may be it but it doesn't give me any idea as to what the technology is and how it operates.
At least that gives me a lead into furthering my investigations as to what this technology is all about.
If you come up with anything else give me a shout, and similarly if I find anything I will post a reply.
I think that may be it but it doesn't give me any idea as to what the technology is and how it operates.
At least that gives me a lead into furthering my investigations as to what this technology is all about.
If you come up with anything else give me a shout, and similarly if I find anything I will post a reply.
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Hi Tim,
Thanks for the link. That is certainly the system I was after some information on and it goes a long way in explaining the technology. Unfortunatly none of the articles refer to the carbon emissions and what they do with it. Another unexplained feature is the output of the fuel cell is electricity but DC. In order to use it domestically therefore it will need to have an invertor of some kind which are not 100%.
Thye next unexplained problem is that they claim you can sell the excess electricity to the electricity suppliers, but how is this achievabl as it is not possibloe to export the excess electricity through the meter and drive the meter in reverse. I am to understand that any excess electricity generated by a domestic Wind Turbine cannot be exported/sold to the energy suppliers.
I am e.mailing one of the companies for an explanation.
Thanks again for you help.
Thanks for the link. That is certainly the system I was after some information on and it goes a long way in explaining the technology. Unfortunatly none of the articles refer to the carbon emissions and what they do with it. Another unexplained feature is the output of the fuel cell is electricity but DC. In order to use it domestically therefore it will need to have an invertor of some kind which are not 100%.
Thye next unexplained problem is that they claim you can sell the excess electricity to the electricity suppliers, but how is this achievabl as it is not possibloe to export the excess electricity through the meter and drive the meter in reverse. I am to understand that any excess electricity generated by a domestic Wind Turbine cannot be exported/sold to the energy suppliers.
I am e.mailing one of the companies for an explanation.
Thanks again for you help.
Google 'hydrogen from natural gas' and you will find loads of information.
wikki
sorry I cant see any economical method of producing hydrogen from CH4
the northerly scottish wind farms actually use excess produced power to split hydrogen from water via electrolysis, store it and use it to power engines and generators, for when the wind doesnt blow.
sorry I cant see any economical method of producing hydrogen from CH4
the northerly scottish wind farms actually use excess produced power to split hydrogen from water via electrolysis, store it and use it to power engines and generators, for when the wind doesnt blow.
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Hi WDIK
Have a look at
http://www.hydrogen.co.uk/h2/h2_page2.htm
It looks to me like someone has cracked it, albeit not Hydrogen as such. Just the production of Electricity and heat at a greater efficienct than simply burning it. Using a Fuel Cell
Have a look at
http://www.hydrogen.co.uk/h2/h2_page2.htm
It looks to me like someone has cracked it, albeit not Hydrogen as such. Just the production of Electricity and heat at a greater efficienct than simply burning it. Using a Fuel Cell
What about about these cells http://www.myhydrogen.co.uk/ do they work?
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I haven't studied these machines but as it states that they run off the cars electrical system and that there is a 'Fuel' saving, I am assuming they use the petrol/diesel engine to drive a larger alternator than the vehicle was originally supplied with and then use this alternator to electolysise water and use the resulting Hydrogen to fuel the engine. Quite how it can produce enough Hydrogen to do this is a little puzzling, but that how I assume it works. May be worth chatting to the manufacturers about their claims. Seems a bit far fetched to me but maybe the guy has something.
basically there is no working example of an over unity fuel cell, you cant get out more than put in.
you can get free energy, as in wind, wave, geothermal or solar, but its still inputed energy none the less
you can get free energy, as in wind, wave, geothermal or solar, but its still inputed energy none the less
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Sorry WDIK,
You can appear to get more out than you put in. Just look at the internal combustion engine. What happens is that you release what was put in by nature millions of years ago. The Fuel cell is just another example of a way of releasing the stored energy.
Wind Tidal and solar are no more free than any other form of energy. Ultimataly these energies are provided by the Sun as in fossil fuel of all kinds. They are all derived from solar activity whether is is in real time or stored energy as in fossil fuels. The only enery I can think of which is not solar derived is Fission or Fusion. Now fission certainly produces more than WE put in, that energy was provided at the Big Bang. Fusion however at this point in time does require greater input than output presumably because we are trying to create our own little 'Big Bang'.
You can appear to get more out than you put in. Just look at the internal combustion engine. What happens is that you release what was put in by nature millions of years ago. The Fuel cell is just another example of a way of releasing the stored energy.
Wind Tidal and solar are no more free than any other form of energy. Ultimataly these energies are provided by the Sun as in fossil fuel of all kinds. They are all derived from solar activity whether is is in real time or stored energy as in fossil fuels. The only enery I can think of which is not solar derived is Fission or Fusion. Now fission certainly produces more than WE put in, that energy was provided at the Big Bang. Fusion however at this point in time does require greater input than output presumably because we are trying to create our own little 'Big Bang'.
Why are people so obsessed with energy ?.
My Dad toiled in the fields with a horse and plough. Treaded flax with his bare feet and walked 3 mile to school and no engines.
His Dad and him drove their produce by foot to the local market 8 mile away which helped feed the local population. They both tended livestock 40 mile away on taken ground using bicycles to get there and back !.
Why does a farmer nowadays have his produce transported from one end of the country to another?.
Indeed why do Irish people buy fish which are transported from Germany , that were originally caught in their waters a few mile off shore ?. Why do Irish trawlers dump hundreds of tons of dead fish into the Irish sea each year to rot on the sea bed and people starving ?
Waste, waste waste ,waste waste, waste..............
And the obsession with energy drives us to continue on this never ending cycle of waste.
Rant over...
My Dad toiled in the fields with a horse and plough. Treaded flax with his bare feet and walked 3 mile to school and no engines.
His Dad and him drove their produce by foot to the local market 8 mile away which helped feed the local population. They both tended livestock 40 mile away on taken ground using bicycles to get there and back !.
Why does a farmer nowadays have his produce transported from one end of the country to another?.
Indeed why do Irish people buy fish which are transported from Germany , that were originally caught in their waters a few mile off shore ?. Why do Irish trawlers dump hundreds of tons of dead fish into the Irish sea each year to rot on the sea bed and people starving ?
Waste, waste waste ,waste waste, waste..............
And the obsession with energy drives us to continue on this never ending cycle of waste.
Rant over...
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are you talking about the CHP boiler namsag? had a stirling engine in it to recoup some of the energy used to theat the house.
seems to have died on its arse, im not sorry as it would have undoubtedly been a cow to service.
http://www.edie.net/news/news_story.asp?id=7066
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