Idea.. rent a workshop....?

[ColJack]

I've seen those "new yankee workshop" programs on the tv and often fancy trying a bit of woodwork myself..
the problem is that it costs thousands to set up a decent wood work shop to do things right..

I was thinking that it might be a good business to get a small workshop somewhere and do a kind of timeshare with other would be woodworkers..

that way the cost of the tools is spread and advice and "pro" workshops could be held to help us DIY guys...

anyone think this might be a good idea / can see a market for this kind of thing..?

what kind of prices would be apropriate? £50 a year subscription and then £10-15 a day for actual use? ( or £5 a night for weekdays.. ? )

 

[Scrit]

The biggest obstacle I can see is going to be insurance, especially if you are using static machinery. Insurance companies would have to regard this like a cross between a training establishment and a small business and apply the same sorts of rules. The other issue in a shared workshop is dealing with the one individual who always borrows a/your tool and either doesn't return it/put it away or who leaves it dirty/damaged/blunted. This is a bad enough problem in a shop with employees and I could see it being a real bugbear with a peripetetic environment such as the one you're proposing.

I also think you might have a problem with your costings. Assuming a big enough shop for 8 to 10 projects to be stored at any one time with bench space for at least 4 people and basic machinery (e.g. table saw, bandsaw, planer/thicknesser, drill press, etc) you'll probably need 750 to 1000 square feet which in the Birmingham area might easily run you £700 per month, plus £250 insurance (a basic equipment 3-man commercial shop would probably be around £1500 to £2000 per annum to insure, and you'd have more "employees" or users, hence the guestimate) and business rates at say £130 a month gives a total of £1080/month or £ 36/day before you dial in electricity, heating, sharpening and maintainance, depreciation, staff, etc. I'll bet you any money that an insurer would insist that your static machinery be compliant with current trades regulations, i.e. brakes, proper guards, compliant tooling, etc and that all portable power tools be PAT tested anually. They'd probably also insist on a "competent person" (i.e. a trained wood machinist or joiner) being present at all times. I think that lot would possibly add another £90 to £120 per day when you take into account Employers NI, SSP, holiday and sick pay allowances, etc. If the shop has 4 bench spaces occupied you'd need to be bringing in more like £40/day per person to make it even remotely viable.

Just my thoughts, although I wish you luck. If you can iron out the costs it could be an interesting proposition for many people.

Scrit

 

[ColJack]

how about seing if a normal wood working place would rent it out at night and weekends?

or even the college? oh wait.. that might as well be a course...

 

[Scrit]

how about seing if a normal wood working place would rent it out at night and weekends?

If you were in trade would you rent out your premises to a bunch of complete beginners? For a start your business would never get insured to have non-employees using the stuff......... And the problem is that woodworking places tend to have lots and lots of potentially very dangerous equipment

Scrit

 

[DonKiddick]

Scrit has summed up the problems with this interesting idea fully. If anything he has been a little optimistic - I think the place would need to be bigger.

Much as I enjoy New Yankee Workshop it does convey the impression that if you want to make nice furniture then you need a fully equipped professional workshop such as Norm's.

Well, you don't!

A half-decent table saw, a planer/thicknesser, and a router table, together with a work bench and a set of hand-tools like you used in woodwork at school are all you really need.

These should set you back no more than around £2000 - £3000 in total (try ebay for second-hand) and will fit comfortably in a single garage. particularly if mounted on wheels so they can be shunted around when not in use.

For a place like Norm's you're looking at more like £50k to get it set up; you'd get about £5k back for it if you came to sell!

Cheers
Don

Oh, and a cordless drill...

And a random orbital sander...

And a jigsaw...

And a second router for hand held work...

And a sliding compound mitre saw...

And maybe a bandsaw...

And those radial arm saws come in handy...

And a drill press...

With morticing attachment...

And dust extraction...

Double garage?

 

[TicklyT]

A few years back I enrolled in a local secondary school evening class to take advantage of the machine tools available in the school workshops.
It wasn't a formal class, everyone was just carrying on with their own projects, with a teacher on hand to oversee and offer advice if asked.
I think we paid about £25 for eight or ten 3 hour 'classes' each term, but it's probably quite a bit more now.

 

[Thermo]

i know halfords originally looked at this idea some years ago when they first started opening up their larger stores, with the idea you could go in and rent out a ramp and tools to work on your car, but it was just a non starter (like most of the cars that would have gone in too!)

 

[Scrit]

There was a small chain of workshop centres doing this in Sweden in the late 1970s, I believe, but I'm sure the stumbling block will be the insurance/safety aspect. H&S Regs or an insurer will doubtless regard the establishment as a workplace and in a workplace there needs to be a "competant person" at all times which will mean a trained joiner, wood machinist or the like. I'm not convinced that this could be got round by creating a co-operative because as soon as machinery is introduced to the equation all sorts of potential pitfalls can occur

Scrit

 

[NickStone]

Coljack, I actually think this is a great idea. I would guess there is a huge market out there - all those frustrated diyers (like me) who could do things right if only we had the right equipment - but for which we don't have space or it's too expernsive, etc. One way around the problems might be to interest a company that makes tools into giving you some kind of financial help. If you don't do it, I'm sure someone else will - sooner or later.

 

[Scrit]

Nick, how much would you be willing to pay for a day/evening? What would you expect for that? How often would you use the facility? Would you be willing to pay a membership and if so, how much?

Scrit

 

[NickStone]

Scrit, I think how much people would be willing to pay depends on what facilities there are. Right now, I'm doing up a house and there are some great tools out there that would be silly to buy but which would be really handy in the short term. Different people have different needs and I guess that's why it's important to do one's research beforehand. As to cost, thousands of people join evening classes, costing around £7 per hour, and gyms which they use once or twice and then never. I think this idea is a good one. Who knows, it might actually take over from the pub - but without the hangover.

 

[WoodYouLike]

Coljack

I also think it is a good idea. You need to keep in mind what has been said above, but I definitely think it's worth a feasibility study. I found NickStone's idea of asking tool companies for sponsoring/support very good.

Isn't there a business-link centre in your neighbourhood, or proper accountant/business consultant that could look into it with you?

 

[Scrit]

Isn't there a business-link centre in your neighbourhood, or proper accountant/business consultant that could look into it with you?

There speaks a man who's never used Business Link, methinks!

Scrit

 

[WoodYouLike]

Isn't there a business-link centre in your neighbourhood, or proper accountant/business consultant that could look into it with you?

There speaks a man who's never used Business Link, methinks!

Scrit

Absolutely right. This woman has used Business Link Kent in the past though