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Ideal E type RS 50N Boiler Manual (used on an S plan System)

Discussion in 'Plumbing and Central Heating' started by skarecrow29, 12 Nov 2008.

  1. skarecrow29

    skarecrow29

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    I have and S plan central heating system (Gravity feed) and I'm trying to find a Manual for my circa 1970 Ideal E type RS 50N Balanced flue boiler.

    The problem is that I think to pump is connected in the wrong direction and would like to check which are the inlet/outlet for the water connections.

    When I moved in the control system was in a complete mess (Pump motor power supply was direct from the mains and running 24/7, zone valve motors were not working.)

    I have replaced the Zone valves, Tank stat, room stat and fitted a new tempus seven controller and all seem to be working ok.

    But as I say I think the pump is pumping the wrong way, pumping into the bottom of the boiler, if this is correct then the zone valves are at the end of the loop and are in the wrong way round.

    If someone has a manual for the E type RS 50 or can confirm which connection is the inlet and the outlet, that would be much appreciated.

    Cheers

    Scott
     
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  3. doitall

    doitall

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    If you need a manual to answer the question, TBH I don't think you should be touching it.

    The boiler is suitable for open vented systems only, can we see some photo's showing the motorized valves etc.

    And yes the pump could be on the return into a boiler spreader bar.
     
  4. shambolic

    shambolic

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    Top pipe is flow bottom pipe is return if thats what you mean. 4 pipes used on gravity just the 2 on fully pumped ;)
     
  5. skarecrow29

    skarecrow29

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    doitall,

    Thanks for you patronising remarks (very helpful).

    Shambolic,

    thanks for the response I may have got my terminology mixed up,

    The system is an S plan system (two zones with a zone control valve for each zone) the pump is mounted local to the boiler. It is an open vented system with a top up tank in the loft.


    the top connection (flow) comes out the boiler and tees one side to the hot water tank the other to the rads.

    working back from the bottom connection we have the pump (Pumping to the boiler) then a tee and the two zone valves.

    This means the Zone valves are at the end of the loops on the return and the pump is pumping the correct way. I can now install the zone valves the correct way up.

    Thanks
     
  6. doitall

    doitall

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    My pleasure skarecrow29 :rolleyes:

    And just where is the cold feed and vent in all this bodge, sorry modified S plan.

    Please explain fitting the 2 port valves the correct way up, and where have you fitted the auto by-pass valve.
     
  7. skarecrow29

    skarecrow29

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    I would expect an expert like yourself would know that a Honeywell V4043 has a direction of flow marked on the side of the valve body this is because the valve operates more efficiently in one direction.

    The cold feed and vent (or F&E as us amateurs call it) would appear to be on the return line between the pump and zone valves which puts them on the suction side of the pump where I would expect them to be.

    As the system is now correctly wired and closing of the of the zone valves cuts the power to the pump a bypass isn't strictly required.
    ( a plumper told me that, when I first examined the system, the same plumber that told me to try this site for a manual for the boiler)

    this bodged up system as you put it has the piping as installed 30 years or so ago the only bodge was when the previous owner started messing about with the control system when components started to fail.

    once again doitall thanks for all your help you've cleared up so much.. eh I mean you've told me nothing I didn't know already

    Cheers
     
  8. doitall

    doitall

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    The only thing you have told me of any use so far is your a DIYer, no problem there because this is a DIY forum.

    However some of us ain't, and believe it or not are trying to help.

    Where you expect to find it wrong, and as a result the boiler could be dangerous without an effective vent, it's certainly no good where it is and doing nothing.

    I mentioned in an earlier post, before you decided I was a to$$er, there's aspreader bar in the return tapping, this is a long tube with little holes init, that spreads the return water across the boiler.

    To conclude you can start listening or suffer the consequences..
     
  9. Gas2Air

    Gas2Air

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    What consequences?? I gotta go bed now, i can't wait for the next chapter.... :LOL:
     
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  11. doitall

    doitall

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    Ever seen an early 70s cast iron boiler with no vent, and you certainly wouldn't want to be in the building if a section goes.

    I can only assume it has a working 4-6bar safety relief valve, but who knows.

    Taken from the manual for BGC number 41.399.39 which is series 4, you should have BGC number 41.409.01 which is series 5.

    So a slightly later model, and I don't know what alterations were made if any.

    Important. These return tappings are for gravity circuits only, in no circumstances should they be connected to a pumped circuit. The Pumped ¾” BSP return tapping incorporates a distribution tube.

    Note the 3/4 return tapping is at the front lower center
     
  12. DP

    DP

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    Scarecrow, stop digging the hole and take on board what is being said by people who do what you plan, for a living. If I knew a fraction of what Doitall has forgotten, I would consider myself a half decent heating man.
     
  13. skarecrow29

    skarecrow29

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    Doitall,

    Let me apologies if we have gone down the sniping at each other route as you are clearly a plumbing professional and without people of of professional knowledge these forums would not work.

    As I said above (maybe not as clearly as intended) I am a DIYer but I am also a time served Mechanical Engineer, A Chartered Engineer and a Chartered Marine Engineer. I have not changed the piping in the system I have only replaced the faulty components like for like and rebuilt the control system as most of it had been ripped out and bypassed.

    My concern was that the direction of flow of the pump and the direction of flow indicated on the Zone valves were pointing in opposite directions, this would have been resolved by a quick look at the Boiler manual or by the info supplied by Shambolic.

    I understand that as professional plumbers and Gas engineers you have the safety of others in mind, but please credit some of us at least with a little common sense.

    The manual I was looking for was Ideal E type RS 50 which I believe is 41 399 39.

    With the return at the lower centre this means the pump is correct and the zone valves are 180 degrees out this is a simple fix of draining the system disconnect the valves and reconnect in the correct direction of flow and refilling the system (venting and bleeding all the high points, rads etc)

    Hopefully you'll agree that this is not beyond a DIYer.

    Thanks
     
  14. skarecrow29

    skarecrow29

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    DP,

    Thanks for your advise, I do not doubt Doitalls ability but have picked up on his banter wrongly and perhaps been a bit over sensitive for that I have apologised and appreciate that everyone is only try to help.

    Thanks
     
  15. doitall

    doitall

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    The RS 50 N is series 5 BGC number 41.409.01

    Can we see a couple of photos, shoing the front of the boiler, minus door, and the pipework.

    The vent MOSTbe on the top of the boiler or flow.
     
  16. skarecrow29

    skarecrow29

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    Pictures as follows:

    before I started on the system: (note the 13amp plug this was wired direct to the old pump :eek: )
    [​IMG]

    Zone valves replaced:

    [​IMG]

    with actuators fitted:

    [​IMG]

    Front view of boiler with new pump in place:

    [​IMG]

    With regards to the vent, there is a goose neck in the loft adjascent to the cold feed tank but I can't see wereit is from as the pipes are enclosed. the cold water feed is to the left of the Zone valves (the smaller pipe).

    Ignore thw pipe running horizintally below the zone vavles this is the gas feed for the hob.

    When I got the house the old zone valves were bodged in the open position, the pump was powered from a 13 amp socket and the boiler was running 24/7 only controlled by the boilers own stat (grey box above the pump).

    The system is now controlled by a Tempus seven controller, a room stat, hot water cylinder stat, zone valves that now work and control the power to the pump through the boilers control box.

    Cheers
     
  17. doitall

    doitall

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    Provided the vent is in the flow and is un-restricted fine, normally it could be connected to the boiler, on the opposite side, and also include a 6bar safety valve.
     
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