Identify keypad and adding proxy tags to scantronic 9943en?

[avstar1]

Hi,

I'm trying to figure out what model of keypad I have and was wondering if someone could help. The only manuals I have are for the Scantronic 9651 and the other manual covers both keypads the 9941 / 9943en, which look identical.

I know that only the 9943en will take proxy tags, Is there a way to tell which touch pad i have from the display please?

It has C016 number on the bottom of the keypad but I think this covers both models...

I want to add proxy tags so my mum can set and unset the alarm as she struggles with the pin code. The installer has disappeared but I do know the installer code which I have tried and the code works.

Any help would be much appreciated, Thx

 

[sparkymarka]

Present a tag to keypad , it should bleep even if not enrolled .... Or remove front , internal sounders will activate .... It could be programmed for engineer reset , so try tag first

 

[avstar1]

Ok thanx, looks like they only way is to buy some tags and see if they are detected by the keypad. I was hoping their was a way before buying them and coopers security only seem to provide support for registered installers...

 

[Europlex]

........................................................................................................ and coopers security only seem to provide support for registered installers...

that's because they are a professional security supplier, unlike so many who will supply to any one to make a buck (pound)

 

[bernardgreen]

they only way is to buy some tags and see if they are detected by the keypad

If they are detected then hope the supplier is honest. He or she will have your address and will also know the identity of tags that were sent to you. That could be a weakness in your security.

 

[sparkymarka]

Bernard .....no....no...no.....the tags only become active when learnt to the panel in each user slot

 

[Europlex]

I think 'B' is getting a bit old now, so many rudimentary mistakes

 

[bernardgreen]

Bernard .....no....no...no.....the tags only become active when learnt to the panel in each user slot

Is it a system where blank tags are programmed by the panel to then have an identity set by the panel ?. If that is the case then yes I was wrong in this instance with this type of panel.

I have seen systems where tags have a unique and permanent fixed identity set in them at manufacture and the panel keeps a list of tags that have been linked to ( learnt into ) the panel. In theory no two tags should have the same indentity but clones of tags have been found.

 

[avstar1]

Yep, the tags have to be introduced to the keypad and assigned to users before use, I have changed the keypad code now anyways so I'm sure that the fitter cannot get in. I understand the need to key tech support to registered / trained fitter of the org but there should be an easier way of just looking at the properties of the the hardware you have fitted from a user perspective, possibly as a menu in the keypad that just says 'about' or something like that.

 

[sparkymarka]

Just get a single fob off eBay , one on at 2.99 and hold it to the keypad !

 

[Europlex]

Surely the PCB is marked in some way to identify, usually towards one corner.

 

[bernardgreen]

Proximity Tags
A proximity tag is a small plastic token with a low powered radio transmitter inside. Each tag contains a unique identity code. (There are 4,294,967,296 (232) different tag identity codes.)

Which means that the panel learns the identity of the tag being linked to the panel. The panel does not ( cannot ) change the identity of a tag. Although not mentioned specifically in the manual I suspect that, like many other wireless remote controllers, the keypad also as a fixed identity.

Hence the securty risk of buying a security tag from a dubious source, maybe all the tags from that source have the same fixed identity. In which case any panel to which one of these tags has been linked can be accessed by any other tag from the same dubious source. If different identities are programmed into tags from the dubious source there is still the risk that the dubious source will with criminal intent provide ddress details of buyers together with duplicate tags with the same identity to criminals who can then use the tags to dis-arm the alarm system.

The risk of this is very small but not insignificantly small.

EDIT There are 4,294,967,296 (232)

232 should be 2**32 or 2 to the power of 32 as the identity os a 32 bit binary code.

 

[Nintendofan]

Hence the securty risk of buying a security tag from a dubious source, maybe all the tags from that source have the same fixed identity. In which case any panel to which one of these tags has been linked can be accessed by any other tag from the same dubious source. If different identities are programmed into tags from the dubious source there is still the risk that the dubious source will with criminal intent provide ddress details of buyers together with duplicate tags with the same identity to criminals who can then use the tags to dis-arm the alarm system.

The risk of this is very small but not insignificantly small.

moral of the story, have the tags delivered to a different address e.g parents, works, collect via EBay's Argos collect etc. then said 'dubious' source would not know your address.

 

[EightyTwo]

... maybe all the tags from that source have the same fixed identity.

If that were really the case, you could only program one tag into the alarm - each prox tag must be unique to the system!!

Open the keypad and look for the big, square, copper coil round the front of the case... (Don't take the screws on the bottom right out - they're a pain to put back in!) Alternatively, check for the 125kHz field coming from the keypad (oscilloscope? LW radio?).

 

[bernardgreen]

... maybe all the tags from that source have the same fixed identity.

If that were really the case, you could only program one tag into the alarm - each prox tag must be unique to the system!!

The customer would realise something was wrong only if he tried to add more than one dubious tag to the panel. Would it be worth the cost and trouble to return the other tags to the returns department of the dubious seller.