If a hydrogen car is 50 MPH faster to a diesel car, why are we looking at electric?

[Avocet]

That sort of technology is always bought/sabotaged by oil companies, with a little help from the government and any other rich body who wants to keep us down in the mud whilst they themselves become richer. I'm sounding like a socialist loon, which I'm not, but it is mostly about power and politics rather than making things better/greener/cheaper for the masses. It's been done for millenia by those in power to keep the masses struggling and paying taxes.

Why give a man a fishing rod, when you can give him the stinking remains of a fish head for which he has to pay dear

 

[aveatry]

View attachment 420969

That new one makes your 400 year old one look 500 years old.

 

[Avocet]

Same/ similar reason the much safer Thorium was not perused as a fuel for nuclear reactors - It doesn’t provide the same weapons as the fuel that was pursued.

Sounds like a very different reason to me!

 

[Avocet]

Maybe its not there yet (fuel up with water) but I guarantee that it would have been if people could not collect it from the sky for free

No, it's more to do with.... "science"... People with solar panels can collect sunlight energy for free and the government is delighted for them - in fact the government is even giving out grants to HELP them do it!

 

[Avocet]

it can never be there as water is completely non reactive in a high energy way you need to separate the component parts as in h20 as in remove the oxygen as a useless part as its readily available in the air about and stops the hydrogen reacting as a fuel source

In fact, it's so useless as a fuel, we actually use it to help put fuel fires OUT!

 

[ericmark]

No, it's more to do with.... "science"... People with solar panels can collect sunlight energy for free and the government is delighted for them - in fact the government is even giving out grants to HELP them do it!

My solar panels 6 kW of them, with 5 kW inverter and 6.4 kWh of battery, are just a little less to what we use without an EV (not counting our e-bikes) there is not really enough room to get anywhere near enough solar panels on my property to power and EV or heat pump.

And I, it seems, don't qualify for grants.

Back in the 70s I went to a lecture think it was by Shell, about the idea of powering a car with North Sea gas, it was abandoned because of the problems if the car was involved in an accident, and how it could release gas as the tank warmed up, and cause a fire, it seems we don't worry about that now, it is exactly the same with damaged batteries to damaged refrigerated tanks, near impossible to stop fires, diesel is far safer, but it seems the world is overpopulated so a few lives loss due to fire no longer matters.

 

[aveatry]

In fact, it's so useless as a fuel, we actually use it to help put fuel fires OUT!

Good luck trying to put a petrol fire out with water - there really are some dumb people on the internet

 

[Avocet]

Good luck trying to put a petrol fire out with water - there really are some dumb people on the internet

Many of them fire fighters, it would seem! Squirting water at burning cars has been used as a fire fighting technique for about 100 years now....

 

[aveatry]

Many of them fire fighters, it would seem! Squirting water at burning cars has been used as a fire fighting technique for about 100 years now....

Yep cars are made out of petrol and nothing else

 

[Avocet]

My solar panels 6 kW of them, with 5 kW inverter and 6.4 kWh of battery, are just a little less to what we use without an EV (not counting our e-bikes) there is not really enough room to get anywhere near enough solar panels on my property to power and EV or heat pump.

And I, it seems, don't qualify for grants.

Yes indeed. I didn't say everyone could run an EV for nothing from their own solar panels - I certainly couldn't! But the point I was making, is that Aveatry's bizarre conspiracy theory about fueling-up with water not being available because the government wouldn't want anyone getting free power, is obviously rubbish, given that the government is absolutely delighted when people get free power from the sun - so they even give out grants for it, to certain folk to help them do it.

Back in the 70s I went to a lecture think it was by Shell, about the idea of powering a car with North Sea gas, it was abandoned because of the problems if the car was involved in an accident, and how it could release gas as the tank warmed up, and cause a fire, it seems we don't worry about that now, it is exactly the same with damaged batteries to damaged refrigerated tanks, near impossible to stop fires, diesel is far safer, but it seems the world is overpopulated so a few lives loss due to fire no longer matters.

It was never abandoned. LPG gas conversions have been "a thing" for decades. The safety issues can be adequately managed in engineering terms. On the continent, where taxation regimes in some countries make it worthwhile, some manufacturers also offer Compressed Natural Gas powertrain options as standard, from the factory. Automotive LPG installations typically store the gas at maybe 20 Bar. CNG is getting on for 10 times that! Neither has a poor safety record compared to petrol or diesel. Hydrogen, of course, needs absolutely massive pressures, so that's a challenge, but already, there are regulations for hydrogen installations in vehicles.

Of course it's true that diesel is visible and doesn't escape to atmosphere, and doesn't even have particularly flammable vapour, but it does come with its own problems - in particular, it flows at ground level when on fire - and (as I'm sure Aveatry is likely to point out sooner or later), it floats on water - even when it's on fire.

 

[Munroast]

it can never be there as water is completely non reactive in a high energy way you need to separate the component parts as in h20 as in remove the oxygen as a useless part as its readily available in the air about and stops the hydrogen reacting as a fuel source

when split into its component parts it is a perfect mixture for fuel, by atoms it is 2 parts Hydrogen to 1 part Oxygen, after being split (by mass) it becomes 8 parts Oxygen to 1 part Hydrogen and this 8:1 mix is the most efficient
Rockets use a slightly leaner mix 5:1 to make it a little more controllable

there is no free energy, no matter how well it burns you will never get more energy out than you used to split it up (1st law of thermodynamics i think)

 

[aveatry]

when split into its component parts it is a perfect mixture for fuel, by atoms it is 2 parts Hydrogen to 1 part Oxygen, after being split (by mass) it becomes 8 parts Oxygen to 1 part Hydrogen and this 8:1 mix is the most efficient
Rockets use a slightly leaner mix 5:1 to make it a little more controllable
there is no free energy, no matter how well it burns you will never get more energy out than you used to split it up (1st law of thermodynamics i think)

zero point energy

 

[Munroast]

Yes indeed. I didn't say everyone could run an EV for nothing from their own solar panels -

I may be able to - since I got my ev van (end march)
Generated = 4867 kwh
House Use = 1595
EV Van = 975
surplus / exported 2297

but of course that is through the summer

Last 12 months
Generated = 7537
Home use = 3916

this would leave 69kwh per week for my van
only averaging 44.4kwh per week for the summer, I am expecting that to go up considerably during the winter