20 MPH speed limits, legal or not?

[ericmark]

Around Flintshire in North Wales we got a load of 20 MPH signs with black outer and red numbers put up out side schools, since they are adversary only, there was never an end of speed limit sign, and were told when they were erected to be legal 20 MPH limits need traffic calming as well, so unless a speed humps, or chicane etc, 20 MPH was not legal, which was just as well, as the signs get bleached by the sun so hard to see if red outer or black outer as the signs get old.

However there seems to be a load of 20 MPH signs spring up without traffic calming, but in England and Wales, I know Flintshire has in the past put up 30 MPH signs which were not legal, so maybe all these 20 MPH signs have no legal backing, but there seems to be so many, so are they now legal without traffic calming? The problem is my cars will not set speed limiting under 30 MPH, so one is speedo watching all the time with 20 MPH, so not watching the road so carefully, soon we will be back to man with red flag.

 

[blup]

Wales seems set to have 20 mph by default. You may be referring to 20 mph zones which are self enforcing by design, use of chicanes, road humps etc, as opposed to 20 mph limits which are definitely enforceable and enforced.

Blup

 

[Stivino]

There are lots of 20MPH roads in Edinburgh. Some of them are big wide roads with no traffic calming. I'd say that the majority of people ignore them and I'm told that they are not enforceable because the speed cameras are not calibrated to speeds under 30MPH. Whether or not there is any truth in that is another matter but, I've never heard of anyone being prosecuted for breaking a 20 limit.

 

[Diver Fred]

Speed limit to be lowered to 20mph in Wales

Wales will become the first UK nation to adopt a 20mph default limit speed in built-up areas.

www.bbc.co.uk

This is really going to upset some people!

 

[foxhole]

There are lots of 20MPH roads in Edinburgh. Some of them are big wide roads with no traffic calming. I'd say that the majority of people ignore them and I'm told that they are not enforceable because the speed cameras are not calibrated to speeds under 30MPH. Whether or not there is any truth in that is another matter but, I've never heard of anyone being prosecuted for breaking a 20 limit.

Woolwich rd, by the Thames, heavily policed 20mph rd.

 

[Alec_t]

I've never heard of anyone being prosecuted for breaking a 20 limit.

A domestic help I used to employ got fined for doing 24mph in a 20mph zone in Cardiff. There were no traffic calming measures in that zone.

 

[Deleted member 292770]

It’s all in

 

[ericmark]

It seems it was a trial and has been abandoned, as to e-bike for legul ones assistance must stop at 16 MPH.

One can cycle well over 16 MPH without motor assistance, however my e-bikes are geared so I simply can't turn the pedals fast enough to get over 18 MPH only way over that is freewheeling down a hill.

My speedo and mile counter only work when using the motor, so can't say what speed is reached down hill.

As to cars, mine will not allow use of speed limiter under 26 miles per hour, if I hit a hill that slows me to below 26 the cruise control disengages.

As to fines for speeding Flintshire put up signs 30 MPH when road was not a 30 MPH, and police caught people speeding and they were taken to court and fined, until they caught a solicitor who was doing what his sat nav said was the limit, and found it was not really a 30 limit, those who found out about the error were able to claim back fines, but they did not auto refund all, only those who claimed.

So because some was fined for speeding does not show it was a legitimate fine.

 

[Avocet]

It seems it was a trial and has been abandoned, as to e-bike for legul ones assistance must stop at 16 MPH.

One can cycle well over 16 MPH without motor assistance, however my e-bikes are geared so I simply can't turn the pedals fast enough to get over 18 MPH only way over that is freewheeling down a hill.

My speedo and mile counter only work when using the motor, so can't say what speed is reached down hill.

As to cars, mine will not allow use of speed limiter under 26 miles per hour, if I hit a hill that slows me to below 26 the cruise control disengages.

As to fines for speeding Flintshire put up signs 30 MPH when road was not a 30 MPH, and police caught people speeding and they were taken to court and fined, until they caught a solicitor who was doing what his sat nav said was the limit, and found it was not really a 30 limit, those who found out about the error were able to claim back fines, but they did not auto refund all, only those who claimed.

So because some was fined for speeding does not show it was a legitimate fine.

There are lots of mobile phone apps that will log your speed on a bike ride (along with loads of other data like gradient, time, route, etc). I use ridewithgps, because it's free!

Ride with GPS | Bike Route Planner and Cycling Navigation App

Discover your next great ride in our library of the best bike routes in the world. An easy to use platform that has everything you need for cycling.

ridewithgps.com

 

[Munroast]

However there seems to be a load of 20 MPH signs spring up without traffic calming, but in England and Wales, I know Flintshire has in the past put up 30 MPH signs which were not legal, so maybe all these 20 MPH signs have no legal backing, but there seems to be so many, so are they now legal without traffic calming? The problem is my cars will not set speed limiting under 30 MPH, so one is speedo watching all the time with 20 MPH, so not watching the road so carefully, soon we will be back to man with red flag.

seriously, if you can't manage your speed with just occasional glimpses of your speedometer, then you probably shouldn't be driving.
And if you can't tell the difference between 30 and 20 mph what are you complaining about? You really should have better control of the massive piece of machinery you are operating in a public place.

 

[ericmark]

With a 4 speed geared car I can judge speed by engine tone, with a infinitely variable transmission engine revs mean nothing, and with 8 speed automatics again hard to tell from engine noise, occasion glances at the speedo, means glances away from the road, and at 20 MPH the hybrids run on electric only, at 30 MPH most have petrol engine running, so in many ways more dangerous at 20 MPH as one does not hear the car coming.

 

[Avocet]

seriously, if you can't manage your speed with just occasional glimpses of your speedometer, then you probably shouldn't be driving.
And if you can't tell the difference between 30 and 20 mph what are you complaining about? You really should have better control of the massive piece of machinery you are operating in a public place.

Makes you wonder why it's a legal requirement to have a speedometer, if it's really as easy as you say...

 

[Diver Fred]

With a 4 speed geared car I can judge speed by engine tone, with a infinitely variable transmission engine revs mean nothing, and with 8 speed automatics again hard to tell from engine noise, occasion glances at the speedo, means glances away from the road, and at 20 MPH the hybrids run on electric only, at 30 MPH most have petrol engine running, so in many ways more dangerous at 20 MPH as one does not hear the car coming.

the hybrid I've just bought plays 'noise' (externally), best described as muzak when the ICE isn't running under 20mph.

Mind you it also plays a 'tune' when the go or power button is pressed; annoys the wife immensely!

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Wales seems set to have 20 mph by default. You may be referring to 20 mph zones which are self enforcing by design, use of chicanes, road humps etc, as opposed to 20 mph limits which are definitely enforceable and enforced.

Enforced, except when they are too busy, which is all of the time.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

However there seems to be a load of 20 MPH signs spring up without traffic calming, but in England and Wales, I know Flintshire has in the past put up 30 MPH signs which were not legal, so maybe all these 20 MPH signs have no legal backing, but there seems to be so many, so are they now legal without traffic calming? The problem is my cars will not set speed limiting under 30 MPH, so one is speedo watching all the time with 20 MPH, so not watching the road so carefully, soon we will be back to man with red flag.

It's not difficult - you can tell your speed from the note of the engine, though I can set my cruise to hold 22mph - what I would like, rather than 'set' and 'reset' is a series of preset speed buttons 20,30,40, 50, etc..

We have 20mph start, repeaters and 20mph end signs, with a few pre-existing humps, bumps and etc.. None of which seems to make much difference to some, after all, what is the risk?