If joists continue over a wall, is it still structural?

[nira49]

We are wanting to demolish a wall between our kitchen and dining area to improve the space. Weirdly, the kitchen currently has two parallel walls about 550mm apart - both are single skin brick approx 10cm plus plaster (walls A and B in image). Wall A has a 1.2m wide opening that is used to access the space between these walls, which looks like it is supported by a door-level lintel above (yet to remove wallpaper and check). Seeing the alignment of wall A with another wall in the house, I'm guessing that wall B was added later on to enlarge the kitchen space, at the same time as the 1.2m opening in wall A was created - this last bit is guesswork of course.
View media item 64817
The plan is to demolish wall B and block the existing door between the kitchen and dining area = more counter space in kitchen and space for a family-size dining table

Checked under floorboards - joists run perpendicular to walls A & B and continue through both walls without any joints. Both walls sit snugly against the bottom of the joists. Does this mean that the parallel kitchen walls are/ are not structural, or is only one of them structural? If structural, is it possible that the structural integrity of wall A was compromised when wall B was added and the opening created in wall A?

We have a builder coming in next week to have a look, but just wanted to know what to expect. Are we looking at a complicated building regs procedure or is this simpler? Anything to watch out for? Thanks for any help and sorry for the long-winded description.

 

[rjm2k]

Is your neighbours house the same design? does it have the same setup?

 

[nira49]

EDIT: deleting this response as misleading

 

[nira49]

{Sorry, needed more thinking before answering}
Our neighbours have only wall A, which is completely bricked up. Don't know if they ever had a wall B, or the 1.2m wide opening in wall A. They have demolished the wall between the entrance hall and kitchen (wall parallel to joists) and extended sideways - this all was done 25-30 years ago, long before they bought the house, so doubt they would know if wall A was ever open (apart from a doorway), or structural...

 

[^woody^]

Joists may need support at mid span - by something like a wall

 

[noseall]

We came across something similar aboot 12 months ago.

I removed some of the ceiling, measured the joist depth and spacing and by my quick reckoning realised that they were designed with mid-span support in mind.

A 178mm x 102mm u beam sorted it and a fist full of dollars to an S.E.

 

[nira49]

Thanks Woody, our joists are 50mm x 70mm at 470mm c/c spacing, so I suspect that one of the walls is likely to be mid-span support. Wondering whether this means that either of the two parallel walls can serve this function...
Noseall, agree on the SE, just confused about order of works. Basic question: does getting a SE meet building regs/ get a building regs approval certificate? Would a professional builder be qualified to judge the situation or is it better to get SE calcs before appointing a builder Thanks all

 

[noseall]

Any 'suitable' person can advise, but this is likely to be an S.E.

He will visit the site, take some measurements then come back with a plan of action which any competent builder should be able to follow.

You then submit an application to building control at your local authority and pay a fee.

Once your builder has installed the beam or whatever, building control will come and inspect (after a phone call) and pass off the work done and check that it corresponds with what the S.E. instructed along with collecting the pages of calc's supplied by the S.E.

At this stage none of the structural work will have been plastered as the beam and its bearings need to be visually checked.

 

[catlad]

50x70mm joists I don't think so!

 

[tony1851]

50x70mm joists I don't think so!

+1

 

[nira49]

LOL! 50 x 170

 

[maltaron]

Surely if you are only removing wall B then you are not disturbing the structural wall A. Assuming that the opening and lintel in wall A has stood without problem for several years then I see no problem in removing wall B, which is likely to be a timber and plasterboard partition. Your local builder should be able to determine this and save the cost of SE and BC.

 

[noseall]

You need to ask an expert for advice I've had good experience from findabuilder247.com you can get advice from free from the builders!

What do you think we are, part time zoo kepers.

 

[nira49]

Hi Maltaron. Thanks, we too are hoping that the wall we want to remove came later and is therefore not structural. Though there is no way to say for sure as both walls are solid brick, both half-brick thick. Will see what the builder says next week and post an update here
Thanks all for responses, really appreciate it

 

[skotl]

You need to ask an expert for advice I've had good experience from findabuilder247.com you can get advice from free from the builders!

What do you think we are, part time zoo kepers.

Spam. Two posts and both are "recommending" this cruddy website.
I've reported to the mods.