incorrect boiler wiring

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Hi,Warmfront install a central heating system for my mother in july 2007 it is a IDEAL ISAR HE24,She had a stoke and was bedbound in the extenstion in her house and i was looking after her full time and the heating was on round the clock last winter until she passed away in the spring.
The heating system was perfect until the early hours of last wednesday when the rccb had tripped the cooker clock had stopped at 01:30,So i reset the trip and the power was on ok i then put the heating on and it would not work.
I went up in the loft where the boiler is and it was dead there are two fcu's and both 3 amp fuses where blown.
So i contacted warmfront and they said they could not do anything because i don't own the house yet so i have to wait for probate.
I decided to have a look myself to see if it was something simple,When i took the cover off the boiler to check the wiring i just couldn't believe what i was seeing see diagram below.
Note the grey wire is white on the installation.
View media item 5869
Last wed was a cold night and it must be the first time the frost and thermostat operated and of course the result is a short circuit,I am self taught in electrical and electronics but i am not qualified.
As you can see in the diagram the two earth connections in the reciever box have no continuity and in the boiler it is connected to L2,The earth wire from the froststat has been used as a control connection which i would never do because in my mind would cause confusion and it looks like it confused the qualified electrician that did the install.
Also there is no continuity from the boiler and the ring main only through the water pipes.
I don't know what the regs say on that point but the fact that he used four core cable for the reciever to the boiler why did he not use it for the froststat.
The question now is do i contact warmfront and tell them what iv'e found because i'm not a qualified electrician or could i tell them a white lie and say i've had one out and he's condemmed it as unsafe.

andy
 
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All central heating control wiring is notifiable works covered by the scope of Part P (not a well publicised fact), so doing it yourself is not a workable solution. Warmfront's duty of care demands that the work they do is safe, ownership of the property does not excuse them of this.

I've probably done in excess of 300 central heating related wiring jobs and of existing systems I have worked on less than 25% have been done (to what I would call) correctly, some (mainly Y plans) don't even work as they should do, just because of the wiring.

As to the cause of the problem you have here, it can potentially be a million things, and I struggle to troubleshoot long distance, even with qualified sparks!
 
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Thanks for the reply i wasn't saying i would rewire it myself,when i contact warmfront about it i am wondering if they will say anything about me opening the boiler up.
I should have said earlier the heating is working now since i removed the froststat which removed the short curcuit.

andy
 
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God alone knows why there was a froststat, the Ideal Eyesore has a froststat built in (as do most modern gas, oil and lpg systems).

As long as you put the lid back on at least half properly (better than some of their engineers) nobody will notice.
 
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Thanks for the reply i wasn't saying i would rewire it myself,when i contact warmfront about it i am wondering if they will say anything about me opening the boiler up.
I should have said earlier the heating is working now since i removed the froststat which removed the short curcuit.

andy
It is your boiler & you are perfectly entitled to open the boiler if you so desire.
 
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Never seen such a mis-guided mess :eek:

The Honeywell only needs 4 wires to it. L & N to the left side of the back plate to operate it, and a switched live on the first 2 operative terminals on the right hand block. These would come from L1 & L2 on the Isar wiring connector.

So to sum up all you need is 4 wires to the receiver, four wires to the boiler, all connected neatly via a wiring center inbetween them.

To fit an extra frost stat to protect pipe work you must purchase an optional kit, according to Ideal.

As said the Isar (newish ones) does have basic frost protection.
 
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All central heating control wiring is notifiable works covered by the scope of Part P (not a well publicised fact)!

That's news to me, could you provide a linky to confirm section of Part P that confirms such work is notifiable :eek:
 
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Thanks for the relies guys i posted this in the plumbing forum as well and have been advised not to contact warmfront so i am confident to correct it.
To be honest i didn't feel comfortable dropping somebody in it thanks again
 
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All central heating control wiring is notifiable works covered by the scope of Part P (not a well publicised fact), so doing it yourself is not a workable solution.

Not so!

Note m on page 9 of the Approved Document part P says: "New central heating control wiring installations are notifiable..."

i.e. not existing. And just to reinforce that view,

Note b: "Replacement, repair and maintenance jobs are generally not notifiable even if carried out in a kitchen..."

So you can go ahead and fix it without notifying

However, I do agree with Click-sure about the capabilities of typical electricians when connecting control wiring.
 
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I would like to ask another question if i may,Somebody i know has just had a heating system fitted by warmfront and they have had a certificate for the elecrical work but my mother didn't get one her system was fitted in july 2007 should she have had a certificate as well.

andy
 
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All central heating control wiring is notifiable works covered by the scope of Part P (not a well publicised fact)!

That's news to me, could you provide a linky to confirm section of Part P that confirms such work is notifiable :eek:
Yup: http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BC_Consolidated_Bldg_Regs.pdf

Read Schedule 2B. If it isn't in that list it is notifiable...


All central heating control wiring is notifiable works covered by the scope of Part P (not a well publicised fact), so doing it yourself is not a workable solution.

Not so!

Note m on page 9 of the Approved Document part P says: "New central heating control wiring installations are notifiable..."
Yeah - but that's not what the actual law says...


Note b: "Replacement, repair and maintenance jobs are generally not notifiable even if carried out in a kitchen..."
Yeah - but that's not what the actual law says...
 
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I agree that the words used by the law are what is stated in the consolidated building regulations.

However, the meaning of the words in the SI are open to interpretation. On the one hand we have BAS saying they mean one thing and on the other we have the Approved Document saying the opposite. Which is right? I have no doubt that in a court of law the Approved Document's version would take priority over BAS's interpretation.

Moreover on a practical front, only a couple of months ago I had the BC over to inspect the installation of a Megastor in my house. I had undertaken the control wiring for it, unnotified. The BC didn't turn a hair over the electrics.
 
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I agree that there are differences between the law and the Approved Document.

But they aren't really differences of interpretation.

Note m on page 9 of the Approved Document part P says: "New central heating control wiring installations are notifiable..."

Actually - that does agree with what the Building Regs say (unless it's volt-free switching not in a bathroom or other special location (kitchen is OK), as then it's exempt from notification via 3 (a) & (b) in Schedule 2B) - my mistake :oops:


Note b: "Replacement, repair and maintenance jobs are generally not notifiable even if carried out in a kitchen..."

That isn't correct.

If your replacement repair or maintenance involves fixed equipment and new fixed cabling it's notifiable wherever it is.

If your replacement repair or maintenance involves work on a special installation it's notifiable wherever it is.


I have no doubt that in a court of law the Approved Document's version would take priority over BAS's interpretation.
Absolutely.

If it suits you to do what AD P says, then no matter how glaringly wrong it is then go for it. :D

Conversely there's always the last sentence of the 3rd paragraph on p3... ;)
 
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Thanks to stoday and particularly b-a-s. Straight swap of plumbing appliances involves no new wiring configuration but, as is often the case for me, upgrading an old system boiler to a new one involves such things as giving the boiler a permanant live ( its old live becoming sw/live in) and terminals through which the pump should be connected (for over-run). There is rarely such a thing as a straight swap, so most work is indeed, notifiable.
 

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