Intergas must be doing really well ...

[Mr.B]

Very pertinent points raised above that I readily admit had no knowledge of.

I've seen references to leaking sumps and pinholes on Ideal Logics (and, obviously the Logic with the option of a long warranty was/is an alternative), and I've seen mention of Worcester using loads more plastic than they used to, Viessman have got this or that problem etc etc ..... the list of issues, pros and cons goes on for each and every boiler. But this forum is helpful in highlighting the aspects to be taken into account.

Yes, re. Opentherm, Baxi said the heat only has no facility for Opentherm so stick with a straightforward two channel programmer .... I don't think that, in itself, troubles me. It's one less thing to complicate life at the moment.

I'm grateful for seeing this reference to the heat only Baxi - it helps to be made aware.

I'm now working on the assumption that the earlier reference to there being a new 800 heat only boiler which is a different and much better boiler to the 600 heat only boiler was wrong and maybe it was the SYSTEM 800 that was being thought of??? (but I stand to be corrected)

Thanks for replies.

 

[Gasguru]

....having now leaned towards Baxi for a HEAT only option

It's now my understanding that a HEAT only Baxi (for example the 616....

The Baxi 600 series HEAT only have the extortionate priced flakey combustion module and are to be avoided.

The 600 series SYSTEM boiler are indeed similar to the 800 series SYSTEM boilers.

Ignore ALL marketing and sales literature...they tell you what you want to hear.
Always look at the install and service manuals (often only available on the trade area of the website but the public can also view)
These are the only documents that have to go through approvals by law and can generally be relied on.

Since the days of the cast iron boilers Baxi have a fine history of manufacturing terrible boilers (the last shambles being the Gas Adaptive combustion control from Italy)
They only survive having formed a collaboration with several European manufacturers.
That means they pull in many of the overseas boiler range and rebadge etc.
AFAIR the 800 type range has it's origins with the purchase of an Italian brand 20 years ago and are manufactured from standard parts that many other manufacturers use.
This is why you must check very carefully under the hood...it is only recently they stopped production of the all time basket case of the Barcelona heat engine (originally developed in the 90s).

Britain doesn't manufacture boilers anymore...we just assemble a collection of parts brought in from all over the globe. (Ok maybe the outer casings but not much else).

 

[Mr.B]

^^^ All received. I'm listening and taking note of what all you blokes say .....

And I did indeed go to the installation amd maintenance section on the Baxi site and can see the one piece module. It costs about £280 plus VAT.

If I'd said I was going for the Worcester heat only would someone have advised against it for a variety of reason?

Ditto the Vaillant Ecotec or Ecofit Pure.

Ditto the Ideal Logic (with it's variety of warranty periods ... some stretching to 10 yrs.

Would someone then say that they would find something to void the warranty the first time they sent someone out?

I've seen all the above discussed at length.

And then there's the school of thought that says pick an installer and see what he recommends - but then someone else is gonna say ... ah, but he only recommends the one he gets the most cashback or freebies from.

Which could take us full circle back to whether Intergas is the optimal solution ... with people saying their back up is diminishing and spares aren't kept on many shelves and with me saying they don't ring you back when they say they will.

It really could be considered a conundrum ... unless you simply drew a name out of a hat

 

[ianmcd]

You are correct a lot of Installers do indeed install a certain brand to get kick backs or in the case of Worcester they have to install a certain amount of their boilers to be an approved installer, some like myself install boilers from a manu that I have a good relationship with, and have people I can call if I need anything, rather than just calling a call centre and putting my customer in the middle, for me that is more important than kick backs

 

[sxturbo]

There will be bad said about all boilers. You are correct it is certainly a conundrum.

If you can I would advise going for a sealed system boiler, only real reason is that the pump is integrated in the boiler and will be covered under warranty.

I am led to believe also that sealed systems run cleaner than open vent and suffer less corrosion due to no air in the system.

Also judging by what's been said about the heat only versions it might provide extra piece of mind.


You were intending to go combi originally which would have meant you would have had to have a sealed system anyway.

 

[Mr.B]

Ta. You haven't said who that manufacturer is though. Perhaps understandably but i'm guessing Intergas?

 

[Mr.B]

There will be bad said about all boilers. You are correct it is certainly a conundrum.

If you can I would advise going for a sealed system boiler, only real reason is that the pump is integrated in the boiler and will be covered under warranty.

I am led to believe also that sealed systems run cleaner than open vent and suffer less corrosion due to no air in the system.

Also judging by what's been said about the heat only versions it might provide extra piece of mind.


You were intending to go combi originally which would have meant you would have had to have a sealed system anyway.

Yes, indeed, sxturbo, you're right I had considered (at some length) a combi with a sealed system. But have gone off a combi for several reasons that you won't want me to drone on about again ... but one reason I wasn't keen on a combi was that very requirement to have a sealed systme - and the reason for that was I simply can't face the possibilty of ripping up 8x4 sheets of chipboard flooring from my first floor in the event of a leak that was caused by pressuring the (25 year old) system ... it might be a minimal risk but I don't want to take at this stage in my life.

I have a new Grundfos pump with a 5 yr warranty and it's readily accessible. I'm happier to have a separate pump - but I agree that a system boiler would include one and it would be covered by the warranty.

 

[ianmcd]

Ta. You haven't said who that manufacturer is though. Perhaps understandably but i'm guessing Intergas?

No not Intergas, decent enough boilers but up here very few places that have spares off the shelf if needed, I didnt say who because it wont make a difference to you, try and find a reputable installer and see if they recommend a brand and are willing totake care of any call outs, long warranties are all good and well, but if you call out the manu under warranty and it is not the actual boiler that is at fault then the customer gets charged, I always attend to ensure it is a boiler fault then I call the manu on behalf of the customer, if they cant get to it next day , I ask them to authorise me to uplift what it needs from a branch that has the part in stock and I bill them for doing it

 

[bernardgreen]

Britain doesn't manufacture boilers anymore...

Is that really true ?, obviously many UK brands will be using low cost imported items in their equipment to reduce cost ( increase profit ) but surely there are still some brands that use few if any imported components.

 

[Mr.B]

If it's OK with you, Bernard, can we avoid going down that road just at the moment - I'd prefer we stick to the more material matters in hand. Ta.

 

[vulcancontinental]

Is that really true ?, obviously many UK brands will be using low cost imported items in their equipment to reduce cost ( increase profit ) but surely there are still some brands that use few if any imported components.

True

 

[vulcancontinental]

No not Intergas, decent enough boilers but up here very few places that have spares off the shelf if needed, I didnt say who because it wont make a difference to you, try and find a reputable installer and see if they recommend a brand and are willing totake care of any call outs, long warranties are all good and well, but if you call out the manu under warranty and it is not the actual boiler that is at fault then the customer gets charged, I always attend to ensure it is a boiler fault then I call the manu on behalf of the customer, if they cant get to it next day , I ask them to authorise me to uplift what it needs from a branch that has the part in stock and I bill them for doing it

Inducements not only work to get the installer to recommend brand X when they call to survey they can also make a difference to the content of replies to questions like the original posters.

A new brand or franchise is sometimes fashionable for a while.

I always enjoy seeing a new boiler commended by being the the most popular in some country or other yet Worcester are most popular in the UK and are almost dismissed out of hand on forums here. But couldn't that be the case elsewhere could it surely?

 

[Gasguru]

The smaller output Worcester Ri heat onlys are an alternative....been out for 15 years with very minor changes in the design.
Occasionally the heat exchangers fail on grotty systems but properly installed you get 10 year warranty on the hex.
Major service every 5 years...gaskets/electrodes/clean out, basic checks each year for the service log and warranty.

I can't say for Worcester but the likes of Ideal and Baxi shut their foundarys a long time ago...Ideal go as far as India for their wiring looms
Even Viessmann have used Italian hydraulics in their models.

 

[Mr.B]

^^^ All rcvd - ta. muchly for those thoughts.

 

[Mr.B]

Inducements not only work to get the installer to recommend brand X when they call to survey they can also make a difference to the content of replies to questions like the original posters.

A new brand or franchise is sometimes fashionable for a while.

I always enjoy seeing a new boiler commended by being the the most popular in some country or other yet Worcester are most popular in the UK and are almost dismissed out of hand on forums here. But couldn't that be the case elsewhere could it surely?

I'm taking notice of what you say here - but can't bring to mind a "new brand". I'm guessing you have one or more in mind but of all the names that I'm familiar with I can't quote one that I'd think of as new.