Is it possible to remove 2 roof binders?

[odzta]

I have a one bed house and basically want to create a very small room in my loft as an office. I dont want to do an official loft conversion and just want to know if its possible to cut two of the binders out ( from outside wall missing the first one 'flush with the wall' then removing the next two) and insert vertical timbers to replace them this would open up a small corner space. my house is divided into two houses each one bed so from the centre apex (if thats what you call it - the top pitch of the main roof) is a concreate block wall dividing the 'house' into two one up one down with bathroom/toilet. I am guessing that due to the concrete block wall providing extra support for the roof and only indending to remove two of the binders and install two vertical supports where the binder would have started (going from the outside of the building inwards - towards the concrete block wall - centre of the actual building) this might be possible? I am not a builder but am not affraid to pick up a book and learn how to do things. Could any 'builders / roofers advise if this is at all possible in theory? Like I say it would on paper simply be a storage place thats plaster boarded and insulated with loft boards already laid. Any productive thoughts on this would be very well received and appreciated. I can provide photos if required. Thanks in advance. heres a good example of the timbers in my roof
http://www.buildsrilanka.com/Images1/Roof_3.gif

I have been looking at the practical concepts of how to reinforce where I would potentially remove the binders from this site. Again just dont want to do anything without checking. Cant risk a sag in a years time and the entire roof needing to be rebuilt. http://www.internode.co.uk/loft/superstructure.htm

 

[noseall]

your post is long winded and difficult to picture or understand exactly what it is you intend doing. pictures would help.

each roof is different and should be judged upon its own merits. roofs are logistically difficult to build. we only haul stuff up into this area of a build if it is really necessary. we don't put stuff up there for fun. if it fixed it is doing a structural job.

 

[odzta]

...thanks for replying. It's long winded for a reason...to try to explain and get the point across. I'm not dumb so please don't reply as if I am, I know why timbers are there and not for decoration..thus the investigation. It's simply about removing two of the binders with minimal work or potential structure movement. I can get a photo and agree yes it might help for people replying. Im not totally green to building work and have laid an entire roof from scratch on a property in France but these are totally different buildings and do not consist of large oak beams thick walls and chevvies. In comparison these buildings are made of paper and any changes if done incorrectly could have major impact as you know being a builder. Thanks anyway for your few lines I look forward to other opinions. Thanks for your time.

http://www.buildsrilanka.com/Images1/Roof_3.gif << this is the same with minor differences to my uk roof layout and this is the same position as the binder i want to remove x2. - 2nd and 3rd in from the outer wall. From the ridgeboard in this picture a concrete block wall is in place dividing the property into two smaller one up one down houses.

 

[noseall]

i apologize if i appeared rude.

ceiling binders are there to lend support to an already weak ceiling. loft ceilings are meant to carry plasterboard, insulation and a little load. the binders should be supported by masonry.

in some roofs the binders are linked, via upright studs to the purlin. this aspect, i do not agree with.

purlins can gain support from structural masonry and binders can gain support from structural masonry. purlins and binders can not substitute each other.

if there is some way of removing the binders and substituting the support they gave by using some of the internal or external walls, then this would be an adequate solution.

 

[masona]

It would've been easier to leave the purlin there as there is a way of bracing them

 

[odzta]

Thanks Noseall for your help . No problem. I will take another look and if need be will provide a photo. I think because of the centre concrete block wall that divides this property that might prove to be enough support for the ceiling to safely remove these two binders without any impact. Thanks again for your time and help. - masona - thanks also for your post, thats not a photo of my roof though and was just added for an example I saw of what I suggested. I have not carried out any changes at this stage to my uk roof.

 

[Deluks]

That diagram you posted is labelled incorrectly, what they call binders are really struts, and what they label as struts are actually the floor joists. The real binder is the 'lower' purlin, connected to the upper purlin by the hangers.
The hangers 'hang' the ceiling from the purlin via the binders, or as Noseall says the binder can be supported by load bearing walls.

No wonder the confusion

 

[Deluks]

As you are planning to do a 'posh loft', not full conversion, then beefing up the floor timbers seems to be the only sensible option.

Removing the binders will mean the ceilling will sag, especially if you are using it as an office, so fixing (sistering) new deeper joists, fixed into the side of existing joists and resting on load bearing walls, is the way to proceed. The binders will get in the way of these new joists anyway, so will have to go, but the deeper joists makes them redundant anyway.