Is there anyway to use Energy savings, and be able to Dim?

[eldaria]

I rent a house, and in this house there is dimmers everywhere.
The fact that there are dimmers don't bother me, what bothers me is that they have used Spots, for all lightning, And I'm not talking the low voltage Halogen spots. nope, I'm talking about the Energy hungry and heat generating spots.
Anyway the problem I have with the setup is:
1. This kind of light is not very energy friendly.
2. The fuse in the Dimmers keep on blowing all the time.

So what I would like to do is to replace all the spots with Energy saving lamps. I found some nice once that are shaped and looks like normal spots, so they would fit perfectly, but are only 25w.
But I have heard multiple times that Dimmers and energy-saving lamps are not a good combination. (I have not tried it.)

So my questions is.....
Is there any way, that I can build, buy, modify, or other way make a energy saving lamp dim?

At work we have some really nice Fluorocent light, that have a IR remote and they can be dimmed almost all the way untill they are almost dark.
And I would love to be able to use Energy saving lamps, and at the same time be able to dim them.

Since I'm renting I do not want to change out all the light and cabling to build in Low voltage spots, so I would prefere to use the existing cabling in the walls, and just replace the dimmers, and spots, so that whenever I move out, I can just put back the old, and take my things with me.

Regards.
Brian.

 

[plugwash]

high frequency flourescents can be dimmed but ive no idea if you can get theese in spot form and even in tube form they are expensive

low voltage halogens are little more efficiant than standard mains spots

standard phase cutting dimmers with flourescent lights wont work properly and will most likely destroy the dimmers

 

[ZenStalinist]

You can dim to some extent where there is a neutral present at the switch that works by dropping the voltage... But you still can't dim that far... The fluorescents you mentioned will have a special dimmable ballast, and possible special wiring.

You may be able to find some dimmable fluorescent set ups, though I suspect you won't get normal ones to replace the bulbs in their existing sockets.

Here is an article describing various dimmable fluorescent arrangements:

http://members.misty.com/don/f-dim.html

 

[ZenStalinist]

So what I would like to do is to replace all the spots with Energy saving lamps. I found some nice once that are shaped and looks like normal spots, so they would fit perfectly, but are only 25w.

Is this the equivalent rating or are the lamps actually 25 watts? A 25 watt compact fluorescent will produce roughly the amount of light that a 150 watt bulb produces, so it is not really a case of 'only'. If you mean the equivalent wattage, then the actual wattage they use will be about 5 watts.

 

[eldaria]

So in short, I'm out of luck to get this to work? (Without paying a fortune.)

So that leaves me to go for Low Voltage Halogen.
How are low Voltage Halogen spots compared to Energy saving lamps, when it comes to Energy usage, Light type, and Lenght of life?

Does the dimmer need to be on the High voltage side, or can I keep the existing dimmer and just change the voltage, and by this also use the existing 230v cabling. and just change the input voltage, and the sockets?

Regards.
Brian

 

[ZenStalinist]

Extra Low Voltage halogens are still much less efficient than fluorescents, but slightly more efficient than mains halogen.

The dimmer should be kept on the mains voltage side (don't call it high voltage because it isn't, the 230v side is called 'low voltage' just to confuse you * )

You should use the correct type of transformer, as a few don't take too kindly to being dimmed.

*In case you were wondering, what is sold as 'low voltage lighting' is actually called 'extra low voltage lighting' in technical terms, and usually can be described as SELV (Separated Extra Low Voltage).

 

[ban-all-sheds]

high frequency flourescents can be dimmed but ive no idea if you can get theese in spot form and even in tube form they are expensive

You can. They are very expensive. You would never recover the cost in the form of savings on your electricity bill.

low voltage halogens are little more efficiant than standard mains spots

It's the halogen bit that's important - 100W of halogen lighting is a lot brighter than 100W of regular incandescent.

 

[ZenStalinist]

100watt halogen is equivalent to about 120watts of incandescent at 230v.
At 12v it's equivalent to about 130 watts. So not much difference.

Both are generally EU Energy 'D' rated.

 

[eldaria]

100watt halogen is equivalent to about 120watts of incandescent at 230v.
At 12v it's equivalent to about 130 watts. So not much difference.

Both are generally EU Energy 'D' rated.

Soooo, this means there is no real energy saving to do if changing to 12V Halogen light? (Besides I can run it on a car battery. )

I'm starting to think, that the best would be to drop dimming, get some other lights to use when I want to have low light.
And swap the spots to use non dimmed Energy saving bulbs.

Thanks a lot all, for execellent fast response.
Brian.

 

[securespark]

A shed-load (sorry again, Ban!!) of table lamps with compact flu's???

 

[ban-all-sheds]

100watt halogen is equivalent to about 120watts of incandescent at 230v.
At 12v it's equivalent to about 130 watts. So not much difference

So a 100W car headlamp bulb is only 30% brighter than a 100W GLS, is it?

And a 25W indoor halogen spotlight casts a dimmer glow than a 40W R50 does it?

Forgive me if I disagree with you. I'm not arguing with the efficiency figures (lumens/watt), but I'm pretty sure that there is a colour temperature difference that makes the perceived light brighter.

 

[breezer]

thats the words, colour temperature.

the colour temperature is what makes lights appear to be better/ more powerfull than others, even though they may not be / not a lot of difference

if you use a film camera and take a pic under incandecant light you will get a orange hue (you know when you have been Tango'd)

If under a flourecent you will get a green hue

the higher the colour temperature the less orange the hue will be

that is why you should use a xenon flash you get no hue

 

[kendor]

You can dim to some extent where there is a neutral present at the switch that works by dropping the voltage... But you still can't dim that far... The fluorescents you mentioned will have a special dimmable ballast, and possible special wiring.

You may be able to find some dimmable fluorescent set ups, though I suspect you won't get normal ones to replace the bulbs in their existing sockets.

Here is an article describing various dimmable fluorescent arrangements:

http://members.misty.com/don/f-dim.html

Flourescent tubes are like neon tubes, discharge lamps, lowering the voltage doesnt dim them what is used to dim is usually Pulse Width Modulation whereby the tube is actually switched on and off rapidly and dimming occurs, the dimmable ballasts or in the case of neons, invertors, will use this principle, a 555 timer chip can be wired to give a PWM output that is controlled by a pot this changes the Mark/Space ratio to achieve the shorter /longer On time. the dimmable ballasts will incorporate a similar circuit plus an exciter circuit at the output , the neon invertors of old with TTL input would be where you connected your PWM output nowadays they tend to be mains dimmable. the problem the author will have is trying to drive the tube itself ,which is not possible without splitting it open (not recommended).

 

[ZenStalinist]

Ah... I see... I had only read very basic articles about dimming fluorescents, mainly on the subject of its possibility, rather than going into technical terms, and has fallen under the misconception...

And a 25W indoor halogen spotlight casts a dimmer glow than a 40W R50 does it?

Can I ask then: Is the colour temperature of mains halogens different than ELV halogens?

I have noticed a 60w halogen bulb is nowhere near as bright as a 100 watt bulb.

 

[kendor]

Ah... I see... I had only read very basic articles about dimming fluorescents, mainly on the subject of its possibility, rather than going into technical terms, and has fallen under the misconception...

And a 25W indoor halogen spotlight casts a dimmer glow than a 40W R50 does it?

Can I ask then: Is the colour temperature of mains halogens different than ELV halogens?
I have noticed a 60w halogen bulb is nowhere near as bright as a 100 watt bulb.

Colour temperature is different to what you are talking about , Light output (LUX, LUMENS)
Colour temperature is important when you wish the lighting to render a particular colour or hue such as in photography or video where you use correction filters on the camera itself(in expensive television cameras) to obtain a correct white balance(in a domestic home use camera it is usually an auto/manual button white balance circuit that takes care of things)
Colour temperature for tungsten lamps is around the 3200K (K is for Kelvin) mark
Daylight lamps try to bring the temperature closer to that of the sun (12000K) but for obvious reasons never achieve it, a good quality daylight lamp(such as for TV Studio/Outside Broadcast use) will be around the 6500K mark these tend to be discharge lamps such as HMI.