Is this a fault

[marsaday]

I have a 10mth old Vaillant 837 boiler and it turns out the heat exchanger has gone (or makes a loud noise when fully working). it is being replaced at zero cost, but i am still annoyed by this fault.

he did a water test and it was crystal clear. We power cleaned the system when fitted and fitted a magnaclean.

the engineer says a piece of dirt got in there when we did the initial clean.

do you think this is correct or is the boiler faulty?

if it is a fault i am concerned because vaillant are supposed to be the best.

finally the heat exchanger is £600 to replace. why is it so expensive when the boiler cost me £980 inc vat. it just seems such a rip off.

 

[GodKnows]

The HEX is an expensive part + labour Not sure if it was a design fault or an installation issue, if the rep/engineer says it is a bit of crud in there then who are we to argue. Under warranty so nothing the bother, if you have had the install done correctly as per MI, then this might be as the engineer stated....

 

[Agile]

We dont know what the problem has been caused by.

"Power cleaning", whatever that means, is as effective as the operator and chemicals used ( if any ).

Its quite common for the system water to be clean but parts of the system to be blocked with dirt.

A good engineer will use different chemicals to deal with metal oxides and calcium based dirt in a system.

Its also possible to create lime scale in the main HE if the boiler is not commissioned correctly.

It can also be spoilt by powering where air has not been properly removed from the system first.

I know that plumbers are thick and dont know anything but there is considerable skill and knowledge involved in installing a system without creating that kind of problem.

Tony

 

[marsaday]

sludge remover was put into the system 3-4 weeks before the boiler was taken out.

the power clean was with a big magnaclean machine.

the boiler has an air lock remover built in and i know we could hear the air going out as the boiler started to go on its first cycle.

i think the install was done as well as any competent person could do it. i worked with the plumber for 3 days doing the install. we did some new plumbing, took out the powermax boiler, and moved the new boiler into the attic.

paying a top notch engineer would have cost twice as much, and so in this case would definitley be cheaper to pay for the new heat exchanger myself (luckily under guarentee).

 

[gas4you]

Personally I would doubt the HE has 'gone'.

It sounds the classic problem of crud settled in the bottom of the HE coils.

Reverse flushing of the HE isolated from the heating system would probably have cured it.

Sounds as if the group service engineer may not be up to scratch, but then if they are prepared to waste the time and cost on what I would think is a non-warranty fault, who are we to argue

 

[marsaday]

they are correct in what they are doing otherwise they would have an angry customer on there hands. all procedures have been followed correctly installing this boiler, what more can you do.

i have put in (with the plumber) 4 new boilers in the last few yrs (rent out a few houses) and never had a problem before. This install (my own house) had a rolls royce cleaning job done on the system. The colour of the water is crystal clear (no sediment in the bottom either).

so if they hadnt offered to repair the part, then my only option would be to sue the plumber? the world of plumbing just gets darker and darker.

 

[Mark Br]

i think the install was done as well as any competent person could do it

so if they hadnt offered to repair the part, then my only option would be to sue the plumber? the world of plumbing just gets darker and darker.

What an arse, in one breath you say that the install was done well and then threaten if you don't get your own way you'd sue the guy that did a good job.

 

[marsaday]

The plumber is a mate. The statement was theoretical. what would i do. what would you do? come on thats what i am asking. the part is covered, but what if it wasnt? what do i do then?

if you had done this install and the part was not covered under warranty would you be replacing the part. if yes, then that is ok. if no where does that leave the customer?

 

[mehran]

for what it is worth i believe you when you say you have done your best to put the boiler on the cleanest system you could.

once the new hx is in i would put a spirovent magnabooster filter in the return and double dose the with inhibitor.

 

[gas4you]

You can clean a system all you like, at best you will only get it 80-90% clean. The remainder is enough to cause the problem you are complaining about.

As said before, you are lucky to be getting a new HE for a non-warranty fault IMO.

 

[mehran]

a bit of tough love there dave

for them to refuse to fit a new hx they would have to prove that it is dirt that is causing the fault. if what the op is saying is true and the system water is clean then they would have to cut open the hx to see what is blocking it.

easier to just fit a new one and have a quite life with less ill will towards you.

 

[gas4you]

a bit of tough love there dave

for them to refuse to fit a new hx they would have to prove that it is dirt that is causing the fault. if what the op is saying is true and the system water is clean then they would have to cut open the hx to see what is blocking it.

easier to just fit a new one and have a quite life with less ill will towards you.

The system can appear crystal clean water, but the remaining crud just settles in the bottom the the HE. It acts like a sump.

Can easily be seen when reverse flushed out into a white or clear bowl

 

[Agile]

the power clean was with a big magnaclean machine.

A Magnaclean is a trade name for a magnetic filter!

They do not make power flushing pumps!

So exactly WHAT was used to do the "power clean" and what chemical was used?

The more that you waffle and dont give the correct technical answers them the more I am tending to expect that the system was NOT properly cleaned.

The correct and best way is to use a power flushing pump like a Kamco or similar and a chemical like X800 followed by a little Fernox DS3 followered after a full multiple drain down and then X100 inhibitor.

Based on what you have told me so far, I would not have been so generous if I had been the service agent!

For a professional its easy to see what the correct procedure and chemicals are and equally easy to see when it has NOT been done properly.

Tony

 

[marsaday]

the power clean machine was a magnaclean. it was a special big one that you bring on site. i am not a plumber and that is all i know was used. if that is not a power flush then it must have been a UFO. we turned some knobs and you could push the water round different ways.

the system was cleaned for 4 weeks with the sludge remover (x800) added and run like normal before all this.

a magnaclean was fitted to the system.

the water was very clear.

anyway they are replacing it this morning and i will ask if i can keep the offending piece

 

[Agile]

This is the website for Magnaclean:-

http://www.adeysolutions.co.uk/

There is no power flushing pump mentioned because as far as I am aware they dont do them!

X800 is a very good system cleanser but it should only be used for a few HOURS and not four weeks!

While power flushing certain chemicals should be used and X800 is one of the best!

Can you ask the engineer what is wrong with the heat exchanger which he is changing.

Tony