Is this a party wall or not?

[Nomadic78]

A party wall must have room on either side.

The PWA may apply to building a wall near a boundary, but that won't make the wall a party wall

Where could I find legislation/literature around a party wall having a room either side?

 

[Murdochcat]

How deep are the foundations for the proposed extension?

 

[Nomadic78]

450mm.

 

[^woody^]

Where could I find legislation/literature around a party wall having a room either side?

It's defined in section 20 (b) of the Act

Type B: A wall that stands wholly on one owner's land but is used by two or more owners to separate their buildings. Only the portion of the wall that serves this separating function is considered a party wall under the Act

 

[Nomadic78]

That’s really helpful

 

[Nomadic78]

Reading the act, it is clear that the wall belongs to me.

The only thing I can believe that could be claimed is if my wall building is over the boundary line.

 

[^woody^]

TBH, in not clear what the issue is.

Boundaries, PW Act and ownership etc are all different things.

The PWA can only apply to party walls as defined under the Act, and there can be no dispute or debate or negotiation about what a building owner or adjoining owner wants.

If the Act applies it applies and the process is clear. What is also clear is that the Act can not apply to works not explicitly stated in the legislation and no Notice can be served or it won't be valid if served if the PWA does not apply. And no PW surveyor can take instruction if the PW does not apply.

 

[Nomadic78]

Hi Woody.

The issue is the adjoining neighbour and his surveyor want it both ways. They are claiming that for the duration of the work, we should treat the wall as a party wall. If we don't treat the wall as a party wall.

I pointed out if they wanted to do this, then the title plans/deeds should be updated to reflect the wall was shared. Only to be told, there was no need for that and the party wall act does not determine the if the wall is party or not. Which is telling.

I've explained that the wall cannot be transient. It is a party wall or not, not a temporary party wall. And thanks to this forum and the responses, I am even more steadfast in that view. And I am dismayed that I am having to do this research and cannot rely on my own surveyor.

 

[stevie888]

Is your PWS actually qualified?

 

[Nomadic78]

He is RICs certified Stevie.

 

[^woody^]

Hi Woody.

The issue is the adjoining neighbour and his surveyor want it both ways. They are claiming that for the duration of the work, we should treat the wall as a party wall. If we don't treat the wall as a party wall.

I pointed out if they wanted to do this, then the title plans/deeds should be updated to reflect the wall was shared. Only to be told, there was no need for that and the party wall act does not determine the if the wall is party or not. Which is telling.

I've explained that the wall cannot be transient. It is a party wall or not, not a temporary party wall. And thanks to this forum and the responses, I am even more steadfast in that view. And I am dismayed that I am having to do this research and cannot rely on my own surveyor.

Yes, but are you in the process of having an award drawn up? Is this surveyor a joint surveyor or is another surveyor involved?

If an award is being drawn up, I can't understand why you or the neighbour are involved in any discussion.

BtW, if an award is being drawn up, then there should be a nominated third surveyor who will determine any disputes between the two surveyors. At your cost if you are doing the work.

 

[Nomadic78]

Hi Woody. There are two neighbours who are using the same surveyor who is not mine, the adjoining surveyor.

The PWA is being drawn up for the neighbour below me. I have no issue with that. Whilst the surveyor was doing a schedule of condition he visited the neighbours who I don’t think is entitled to a party wall. He has advised he thinks it is a party wall. I explained to my surveyor that if the boundary/party wall is disputed, a party wall cannot be served. And that surveyor’s opinion does not count.

 

[stevie888]

Jeez what a mess! If it's a straight disagreement between surveyors then you wind up having to pay for a 3rd to arbitrate, He can be agreed between the original pair or appointed by the RICS. I suggest the latter. I also suggest you read up on their procedure.

 

[Nomadic78]

Thanks Stevie. I will do.

 

[wessex101]

Whilst the surveyor was doing a schedule of condition he visited the neighbours who I don’t think is entitled to a party wall. He has advised he thinks it is a party wall. I explained to my surveyor that if the boundary/party wall is disputed, a party wall cannot be served. And that surveyor’s opinion does not count.

Hang on a minute. Why would the surveyor visit the other neighbour unless he was touting for work? Sounds to me like this is a rogue surveyor who is trying to inflate his fee. It would be interesting to know how your first neighbour found them, it wasn't from a unsolicited letter following a planning application was it?

The idea that he wants to designate the wall as a party wall for the duration of the works is complete nonsense. It can only be a Type A party wall and only if it sits astride the boundary. The position of the boundary can usually be determined by the physical characteristics of the building such as was it built as a continuation of the party wall separating the two buildings or was one property added later, existing boundary features such as fences and the title plan with the deeds. The drawing provided shows the existing wall sitting inside the boundary not astride it although this may be misleading but the fact that the new extension has been set back suggests that the boundary may run along the middle of the existing wall.

I assume a party wall notice has NOT been served on the second neighbour? Make sure this doesn't happen or you will be liable for all the adjoining owners surveyor's fees.