Is this cost reasonable?

[nozspark]

£50 per fitting seems a bit OOT seeing as you are supplying the fittings.

However,
you say that this is in a sloped ceiling, is it going to be plasterboard - joists - roof felt - tiles?
If so then the builder will also be fitting insulation between the joists to comply with part L of the building regs. As recessed downloghts require some breathing space around then the insulation around the fittings will need to be removed, if it is removed then it will no longer comply with part L....

so the builder might have to find some other way to comply with part L and give you the lights that you want, he may have to add a false ceiling or he may do it some other way..

another consideration of Part L of the building regs is that 1 in every 4 fittings must produce 40 lumens per watt, i.e. be energy saving - how is this going to be complied with??

AND finally - as the builder is doing the work and is probably subbing out the electrics if you want the recessed lights you will either have to pay, negotiate or make do with what was on the original plans.

 

[BuildingNovice]

nozspark,

Thanks for your input.

Yes, it will be plasterboard, joists, felt/insulation and tile. However, the cost of that work has been agreed separately.

We are not putting in recessed downlights (building control aren't keen) and will be using ceiling spotlights instead. So insulation does not need cutting.

control has agreed for us to put in 2 energy lights in another part of the extension.

Yes, builder is subbing out; not clear whether I am underestimating work involved (but from responses does not look like it), or builder is just taking advantage of fact we have to either use him now or pay a similar cost (or higher cost) later to get someone else to do the work (after ceiling has been put on).

 

[Taylortwocities]

I just spotted your comment

It's a 5m x 3.5m room and pitched ceiling

How will you/the builder be able to achieve the thermal insulation requirements?
You'll have to remove a lot of the Kingspan etc to give the downlights the needed clearance.

three separate circuits is a lot more effort. Probably add another half day plus more cable.

 

[BuildingNovice]

Taylortwocities,

We are putting in ceiling spotlights, rather than recessed downlights (latter was ruled out after building control said it would be difficult to comply with insultation/thermal bridging issues).

Something like this

http://www.litecraft.co.uk/View-Our...d7522/cid672/Saturn-Single-GU10-Spotlight.asp

I am obviously happy to pay the extra cost of 3 separate circuits, but what order of cost is reasonable for that extra request? To my simple mind it means fixing 3 separate cables on 1st fix?

 

[Steve]

We did look ino LED and CFL, but got the impression the LED light was too narrow a beam. CFL lamps seem too bulky looking.

Did you see this?

//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:lighting:lamps:gu10

 

[BuildingNovice]

Steve,

Thanks - it's a useful read.

I feel I want to avoid any recessed lights as the roof cavity after the pitched ceiling goes on will be about 15cm only.

Even though LEDs give less heat, we would still need to cut some insulation out

Am I correct in thinking ceiling spotlights with a rose mounted externally on the ceiling are easier to fit?

 

[nozspark]

Steve,

Thanks - it's a useful read.

I feel I want to avoid any recessed lights as the roof cavity after the pitched ceiling goes on will be about 15cm only.

Even though LEDs give less heat, we would still need to cut some insulation out

Am I correct in thinking ceiling spotlights with a rose mounted externally on the ceiling are easier to fit?

For surface mounted lighting (LED, CFL or Halogen) you will only need to cut away enough insulation for the cable to pass through!

For 10 x surface mounted spots I'd say 1/2 day to first fix and 1 day to 2nd fix + materials.... so as said earlier, £250 should cover it, so long as there are no access issues!

 

[LoveRocket]

The builder is having a laugh if expects you to pay 500quid to have a few spots whacked up. I would seriously question the integrity of a tradesman who attempts to rip people off to such an extent.

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

Hi Building novice,

I don't know why (since you didn't say it) but i got it into my head that you were talking about recessed downlighters Given that, most of the questions i asked arn't really relevant, sorry.

Since you are talking about surface mounted spots and you are supplying them, 500 beer tokens does sound a bit strong.

The only thing is, in your answers to those questions, the 'assume' word cropped up, thats never good when designing/building something as we all know assumption is the mother of all f-cups.

Also, you'll never endear your self to a trade when you describe their work beginning with the word 'just'

So if you said to the builder, something like - 'i assume its just wang a couple more bits in, it'll only take a minute' you may have got his back up and his price is the consequence.

you also said, "I assume the load is within the limits for a circuit " do you have any info which led you to this assumption?

 

[BuildingNovice]

Mikhail,

Thanks for your comments.

I am actually now based in London (I can't seem to change profile from Aberdeen!) and having looked around, its seems £50 an hour is not unreasonable for a London electrician. If we assume 1 hour for fixing each light (first and second fix), then £50 a light does not sound completely unreasonable (although it may still be on high side). I should add the builder is VAT registered and the £50 is VAT inclusive.

I imagine in northern England or Scotland the cost could well be half this.

 

[sergeantash]

Is it worth having a chat with the sparky, asking what work you can do in advance to speed up the process for him, therefore reducing the labour cost? Perhaps running the wires through joists etc?

I have just fitted downlighters myself, not as many as you require, but it didn't take long at all, to fit 4 inclusive of an extractor unit, switching and FCU's took the whole of Sunday, and I'm simply a DIY enthusiast so I struggle to see how it could take a professional an entire day.

Eitherway, good luck!

 

[nozspark]

£50/hr inc VAT works out at

£40/hr + £25 materials +VAT

so if other local tradesmen are charging £50/hr then you aren't getting a bad price