Is this permission still in place?

[angelboy]

Local residential property had an outbuilding that was granted planning permission in 1987 for a fish and chip shop. Local people tell me that it lasted 6 months then closed down due to not being financially viable. In 1998, there was an indoor swimming pool granted planning that was attached to this building. This building was then used as a store room and an entrance to the swimming pool. The VOA recognise this property as residential and there is no 'mixed use' regarding the rates.

The current tenant to this property wants to open up a cafe and is arguing that they have planning permission so don't need to submit a fresh application.

I'm struggling to find out whether the previous planning is still current or has it lapsed now?

 

[DAZB]

Usually Planning permission has a timeframe for the work to have started, often within 3 years of permission being granted or it will lapse. If you go on the website of the Council involved you will be able to go to the Planning section and enter the address and it will show the status of the property.

 

[blup]

If the swimming pool permission included change of use of the fish and chip building, then a new permission is needed for a restaurant, unless the 10 year rule applies (immunity from enforcement). Check the wording and extent of the swimming pool permission.

Blup

 

[^woody^]

Ask the planners what the current Use Class is. It's got nothing to do with planning permission being valid or not.

 

[angelboy]

Ask the planners what the current Use Class is. It's got nothing to do with planning permission being valid or not.

I did, they didn't know and said they needed to investigate - so still waiting.

 

[angelboy]

If the swimming pool permission included change of use of the fish and chip building, then a new permission is needed for a restaurant, unless the 10 year rule applies (immunity from enforcement). Check the wording and extent of the swimming pool permission.

Blup

There are no planning documents online for this pool application, so I need to call the planning department today and get them to search through the microfiche and get me a copy.

 

[angelboy]

Usually Planning permission has a timeframe for the work to have started, often within 3 years of permission being granted or it will lapse. If you go on the website of the Council involved you will be able to go to the Planning section and enter the address and it will show the status of the property.

The work started, the fish and chip shop opened for less than 6 months in 1987 then shut down. There has been no further commercial activity in that building or anywhere within the residential curtilage for 36 years.

 

[blup]

Ask the planners what the current Use Class is. It's got nothing to do with planning permission being valid or not.

A hot food takeaway isn't in a use class, its sui generis, so planning would be required for a restaurant.

Blup

 

[jeds]

The tenant is wrong. A restaurant falls under Class E. As Blub says, a fish and chop shop does not fall under class E (or any other class) and therefore a change to class E would require planning permission. The difference is 'consuming on the premises'.

 

[angelboy]

The tenant is wrong. A restaurant falls under Class E. As Blub says, a fish and chop shop does not fall under class E (or any other class) and therefore a change to class E would require planning permission. The difference is 'consuming on the premises'.

That's good to know.

 

[^woody^]

A hot food takeaway isn't in a use class, its sui generis, so planning would be required for a restaurant.

Blup

Sui generis is still a Use Class.

Planning was applied for, and granted for the chip shop. So that determined the Use Class.

Then some or other application was made, and that may or may not have altered the Use Class.

So the question is "What is the Use Class?", not "Is the planning permission still in place".

Then it can be determined whether the new proposed use fits with the current Use Class or not.

 

[blup]

Sui generis is still a Use Class.

Planning was applied for, and granted for the chip shop. So that determined the Use Class.

Then some or other application was made, and that may or may not have altered the Use Class.

So the question is "What is the Use Class?", not "Is the planning permission still in place".

Then it can be determined whether the new proposed use fits with the current Use Class or not.

The chip shop permission isn't in place if its been changed to swimming pool related use, a question the OP has to ask of the planning authority. Sui generis isn't a use class, its in a class of its own, so no changes are available within it.

Blup

 

[jeds]

The chip shop permission isn't in place if its been changed to swimming pool related use

Not how I read it. Post #7 seemed to confirm that we are talking about a change of use from a fish and chip shop. The mention of a swimming pool was that it was attached to the fish and chip shop - not that the chip shop had been changed. The OP would need to clarify?

 

[^woody^]

Sui generis isn't a use class, its in a class of its own

The Use Class Order '87 applies to all development and all properties are either placed in a defined use class, or are in "a class of their own" AKA Sui Generais.

Further, the swimming pool application is stated as being attached to the building, not a conversion of the building, so that implies that the Use Class of the building in question was not altered.

The issue is still the use [class] of the building, not any planning permission.

 

[angelboy]

Not how I read it. Post #7 seemed to confirm that we are talking about a change of use from a fish and chip shop. The mention of a swimming pool was that it was attached to the fish and chip shop - not that the chip shop had been changed. The OP would need to clarify?

I'm still waiting to hear back from the planners about the swimming pool application, with the submitted documents.

Having read through the latest planning submission, it seems that the tenants want to use the building for a coffee shop.