Is this work notifiable under Part P

[rkid84]

Yes.

It might be said that asking on an internet forum is a good indication.

I didn't ask about how to do the installation.

I asked about the remit of the legislation. I want to make sure I don't break the law.

I think internet forums are a wonderful tool to support each other and learn new skills. I enjoy teaching myself new skills.

I actually think it is a sensible approach to ask questions and it shouldn't be looked upon as a weakness in one's skills.

 

[RandomGrinch]

In fact, outside power is definitely NOT minor works.

I would go as far as to say also not DIY work.

Even so, this is connected to the load side of an FCU - the risk involved (if installed well by a DIY'er), would be far less than if an extension lead was permanently run to the shed...

 

[EFLImpudence]

I asked about the remit of the legislation. I want to make sure I don't break the law.

The only law involved states the work must be done to ensure safety.

Without the knowledge and correct testing equipment, that might be difficult to achieve.

I think internet forums are a wonderful tool to support each other and learn new skills. I enjoy teaching myself new skills.

Ok.

I actually think it is a sensible approach to ask questions and it shouldn't be looked upon as a weakness in one's skills.

Yet obviously, it is.

 

[ericmark]

Got a link, or is it similar to this?

This was what I was thinking about, the EZ165 replaced the withdrawn EZ150, main point is it has a loop test, there are others but non seem to be designed for a B32 MCB/RCBO as the pass limit is too high.

It says

on the Martindale data sheet, even before the extra 5% was added we had 1.44 Ω as pass mark on ring finals with a B32 MCB. As to if with RCD protection it is really a problem anyway not so sure? The EZ 365 has the RCD test button, so we have

OK at 195 volt so not as good as the proper tester, but it is better than the test button on most RCD/RCBO's. And not 40 mS but in real terms likely 0.3 seconds is good enough.

But £65.34 is not cheap, a lot cheaper than a proper tester, but although these

at £6.73 are not useless, very good in a caravan in Europe to see if plug right way around, they are not really socket testers, they don't tell you much.

However if we were to say unless you have £500 worth of test gear you should not work on low voltage electrics, we may as well get this forum shut down, we all know what we should do, and what we do do. Be it obeying the 20 MPH signs in Wales, or paying the LABC £100 plus vat to register work, or always completing a certificate, some times we need a little common sense.

In the main with RCD protection items in the garden will trip the RCD before some one gets a shock, the worry is more down to the use of class I equipment in the garden with a TN-C-S supply, it seems we just cross our fingers and hope when using class I equipment we will not also have a broken PEN.

 

[JohnW2]

It might be said that asking on an internet forum is a good indication.

A good indication of what - a lack of the required 'electrical knowledge' or a (I would say 'responsible') desire to acquire the required knowledge by asking questions?

In any event, in this case the OP did not ask anything ('electrical') about how to undertake the task, his question merely relating to legal/ bureaucratic issues.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Depending on the person doing the DIY work and their skillset, you could say that about any project.

Indeed so. In fact, given the limited access which the vast majority of DIYers have to test equipment, it could be argued that electrical DIY work should not be 'allowed', no matter how knowledgeable and 'skilled' the person may be.

That is obviously one view, which has become law in just a tiny number of countries (Australia is the only significant one I know). However, it would seem to make little sense for someone who subscribes to such a view to participate in a "DIY Electrics" forum - unless they participate only to tell all prospective electrical DIYers 'not to do it'!

The UK is particularly 'lax' in this regard. Not only is electrical DIY work 'allowed', but anyone can call themselves 'an electrician' and undertake paid electrical work for others, regardless of what training, experience, qualifications, knowledge, skill or test equipment they have (or do not have!) - and that's probably more of a concern than the matter of DIY electrical work!

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

A good indication of what - a lack of the required 'electrical knowledge'

Yes.

In any event, in this case the OP did not ask anything ('electrical') about how to undertake the task, his question merely relating to legal/ bureaucratic issues.

Do you not think the two go hand in hand?

 

[JohnW2]

Yes.

Does that mean that you believe that those who feel the need to ask questions in this forum shouldn't be undertaking electrical work?

Do you not think the two go hand in hand?

No.

The bits you go on to quote relate to issues that others decided to raise, nothing to do with the OP's initial question.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Notch7]

I don't know where you read it, but it was wrong. Since the appearance of some extensive relaxations so the notification rules (in England, but not Wales) in 2013, there are now only three things which are notifiable (in England):

Replacement of a consumer unit
Installation/creation of a "new circuit"
Work in certain 'zones' of a bathroom

... and that's it!

Kind Regards, John

Would that mean then that:

running some SWA from a socket on a ring main down to a shed is not notifiable
(which in practice requires some form of metal adaptable box to terminate and suitable overload protection device)

but running some SWA directly from a consumer unit to a shed is notifiable.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Does that mean that you believe that those who feel the need to ask questions in this forum shouldn't be undertaking electrical work?

No it does not.

As I have said, there is work I do not consider to be (what is meant by) DIY; outside power being one such.

The bits you go on to quote relate to issues that others decided to raise, nothing to do with the OP's initial question.

Yet they show the OP's level of knowledge.


I mean no disrespect to the OP.

 

[JohnW2]

Would that mean then that: ... running some SWA from a socket on a ring main down to a shed is not notifiable

Yes, in England.

(which in practice requires some form of metal adaptable box to terminate and suitable overload protection device)

True, but that doesn't affect notifiability.

... but running some SWA directly from a consumer unit to a shed is notifiable.

Again, Yes (in England) - since that would constitute a 'new circuit'.

Those are 'the rules' - but don't ask me to justify or explain them

Kind Regards, John

 

[flameport]

I asked about the remit of the legislation. I want to make sure I don't break the law.

If it was notifiable, the notification must be done before the work was started.

 

[JohnW2]

No it does not. As I have said, there is work I do not consider to be (what is meant by) DIY; outside power being one such.

Fair enough, but that's obviously just your personal view - nothing to do with any rules, regulations or laws.

Don't forget that, in appropriate hands, any work (including any notifiable work) can be 'DIY work'.

Yet they show the OP's level of knowledge.

They do - but my point was that the OP's original question did not give any (let alone "a good") "indication of the extent of his electrical knowledge. Those exchanges resulted from others 'probing' him in relation to things that were 'off-topic' in relation to his question.

I mean no disrespect to the OP.

I'm sure you didn't. What we've moved onto discussing is a much more general issue, not related specifically to the OP.

Kind Regards, John

 

[plugwash]

I asked about the remit of the legislation. I want to make sure I don't break the law.

Assuming you are in enland then as I understand it's not 100% clear. I also suspect it never will be clear because prosecutions tend to focus on far more extreme cases.

The current rules say nothing specific about outdoor power. They do say that work in special locations is notifiable but they define special location very narrowly.

There is one wrinkle and that is that "new circuits" are notifiable but the building regs do not define what a circuit is nor precisely what makes it "new".

BS7671 defines a "circuit" as "An assembly of electrical equipment supplied from the same origin and protected by the same overcurrent protective device(s)." but it doesn't make it clear if *every* protective device forms a circuit. Furthermore a socket circuit is considered to be a "final circuit" which would suggest that anything downsteam of it is not a seperate circuit. Furthermore the changes in the notification requirements were billed as "reducing" the notification requirements and under the old requirements adding "socket outlets and fused spurs" to an existing socket circuit was specifically exempted from notification.

Still someone being particularly pedantic could take the position that the devices connected to the output of a FCU formed their own circuit and hence were notifiable.

 

[JohnW2]

Assuming you are in enland then as I understand it's not 100% clear. I also suspect it never will be clear because prosecutions tend to focus on far more extreme cases.

I think that (give or take what you say below) it's very close to being "100% clear". In particular, in England, there is no relevance about work being 'outdoors'

..... ........... Still someone being particularly pedantic could take the position that the devices connected to the output of a FCU formed their own circuit and hence were notifiable.

We've been through this umpteen times, and I don't think that anyone (other, maybe, from eric!) really believes that the intention was that an FCU should create 'a new circuit' in a manner that would require notification under current rules (in England).

As you say, if one goes back to pre-2013 when (in England) very few things were NOT notifiable, extending an existing circuit by use of an FCU was one of those very few things that was not notifiable - so, as you say, one cannot believe that the 'extensive relaxations' (in England) in 2013 were intended to reverse that state of affairs!

Kind Regards, John