Junction Box Safe?

[CBX]

Hi there

Spent some time yesterday fixing my integrated oven installed last year by kitchen fitters - it wasn't screwed in properly and could pull out or be tipped. Not ideal.

Anyway, I also took the opportunity to tighten some terminals, one of which was pretty lose. I also opened a junction box, and noticed the neutral was also lose, but couldn't be tightened due to the design of the box.

I move the neutral from the right hand side terminal to the middle, which has plastic support both side allowing things to be screwed tight. Unfortunately, one of the brass terminal screws fell behind the cupboard down a up till now unnoticed gap. Attempts to get it back failed, and DIY sheds didn't really help, so I've improvised by connecting the earth together with a connection block (or whatever the terminology is).

Am I right in thinking this is safe?

Also, is there any reasonably safe way for me to test the earth? I don't have any specialist equipment aside from a multimeter.

Thanks

Untitled

• CBX
• 1 Jun 2010
• 2

 

[securespark]

Depends what rating the block is. If it is just a standard JB, replace the whole thing with a quality item. MK do this (http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MK1132.html), which is much better than putting flexible and solid conductors under the same screw.

As for the earth, you could measure the resistance of the line & cpc conductors in the cable feeding the oven.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I also opened a junction box, and noticed the neutral was also lose, but couldn't be tightened due to the design of the box.

Nonsense - it's not the design of the box that stopped it from tightening, it's because the box is broken. Get a new one.

Attempts to get it back failed, and DIY sheds didn't really help,

Nonsense - those junction boxes are available everywhere. Get a new one.

Am I right in thinking this is safe?

Doesn't look like 30A rated choc-block to me. What you need is a new junction box.

Also, is there any reasonably safe way for me to test the earth? I don't have any specialist equipment aside from a multimeter.

That will tell you that you have some form of earth continuity, but won't be sensitive enough to tell you how good.

But what do you mean by "test the earth"?


And what's with that black sticky tape?

 

[securespark]

Am I right in thinking this is safe?

Doesn't look like 30A rated choc-block to me.

Does it need to be a 30A block?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Must admit I was assuming it's a 30/32A circuit.

 

[CBX]

Thanks for the replies - very fast

The junction box does prevent the outermost terminal from tightening properly (right in the picture) because there isn't raised plastic both sides of the terminal. When you try to tighten it, the brass side simply flexes outwards, and the screw slips. That's why I moved the neutral to the middle.

The DIY sheds do sell replacement boxes, but I am concerned that if I replace the one fitted, the cables might fall down into the wall space, and that would be a problem (esp the supply cable). I'm also concerned that the guy who installed it didn't leave any slack, so if the terminals are in different places I might not be able to fit it.

The insulation tape is just there to stop me losing anything else down the gap.

By test the earth, I suppose I was in laymens terms simply meaning that the earth is at least connected back to the CU. I appreciate there are more tests to carry out when installing new circuits etc than that, which were hopefully done when installed by the kitchen fitters.

 

[Grizzly]

The junction box does prevent the outermost terminal from tightening properly (right in the picture) because there isn't raised plastic both sides of the terminal.

That's because the raised plastic bit has broken off.
Should be the same as the raised plastic bit on the side of the line terminal.

When you try to tighten it, the brass side simply flexes outwards, and the screw slips.

..which it wouldn't do if the raised plastic bit hadn't broken off.

Do as BAS says, and get a new junction box.

 

[CBX]

That's because the raised plastic bit has broken off.
Should be the same as the raised plastic bit on the side of the line terminal.

It really hasn't - it's just like that. There's no evidence of broken plastic, or where plastic was but now isn't. I suspect it would screw all the way down if it didn't meet a lot of resistance, perhaps the earth wires say.

The consensus is that connecting the earth as in the photo isn't safe, or simply the entire box isn't enough for the (probable 32A) circuit? I'm happy to give putting in a new box a go, but like I say I don't think there's slack, and I don't think the one linked would work with the cable lengths available (though I haven't tried of course).


Edit: No I'm wrong. I'm not at home right now, but another one of the photos I took does appear to show that there is plastic missing. That means the guy who fitted it knew this which I'm not very happy about.

Now I'm using the 2 good terminals for live & neutral, so hopefully the box isn't considered unsafe as a temporary measure. But I am coming round to the idea of at least trying to fit a replacement box.

 

[LoveRocket]

What you've done looks OK - not ideal, but it ain't gonna kill you.

 

[ColJack]

that live looks loose too.. I can see between the screw thread on the left... not good..

what you want is a surface mount box and a cooker connection unit.. do the job properly with the right kit..


View media item 10929 View media item 10930
this is NOT a surface mount box, but does show the cooker conection unit to the right of the pictures..
you'd only need a single backbox, not a dual as is shown in the picture..

might be best to get a 35mm one though rather than a 25mm one..

 

[CBX]

Yeah, the other photo shows a crack in the plastic under the Live.

Just to be clear I do have a proper cooker point, and cooker switch. This box is near the ceiling as something to do with ensuring cables in walls go down straight when work was done on the circuit.

I went and bought the MK box linked earlier, I'll have a go at fitting it as a replacement. I expect it to be difficult due to cable lengths. Presumably I can have the cables coming in through the backplate if I need to though.

Thanks for all the advice.