just seen the news

[jbonding]

i didnt think it would happen this quick but they are blaming the USA and the UK for the problems in israel and lebenon

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Who is "they"?

The main people responsible for the problems there are Hizbolla and Israel, and the only sensible course of action is for an immediate and simultaneous cease-fire.

The USA and the UK have, however, not been helping the situation. Every country in the world, bar three, has appealed to both sides to call an immediate and mutual end to the slaughter.

The three that have not are:

Israel

USA

UK

 

[ellal]

could it be that the US inactivity on a ceasefire front is down to the fact that they are indeed 'making a killing' from the killing...?

The United States is expediting an arms shipment of precision bombs to Israel from an arms deal struck last year amid the Jewish state's ongoing assault on Lebanon, a US official said Saturday.

A decision to rush delivery of the weapons following a request from Israel was made around the time Israel's campaign in Lebanon began July 12 following the capture of two of its soldiers by the Hezbollah militia, the official told AFP on condition of anonymity......

Israel's request for rush delivery of the satellite- and laser-guided bombs was described as unusual by some military officers and as an indication that Israel still had a long list of targets in Lebanon to strike, The New York Times noted.

The US official refused to describe in detail the size and contents of the shipment but confirmed that they included precision guided bombs.

An arms-sale package approved last year provides authority for Israel to purchase from the United States as many as 100 GBU-28s, which are 5,000-pound (2,268-kilogram) laser-guided bombs intended to destroy concrete bunkers.....

One US official said normal procedures usually do not include rushing deliveries within days of a request. That was done because Israel is a close ally in the midst of hostilities, the official told the Times.

one UK politician has put some distance from the US position...which'll probably mean he gets sacked on monday!!

 

[joe-90]

Iran and Syria are the main protagonists.

 

[jbonding]

Who is "they"?

The main people responsible for the problems there are Hizbolla and Israel, and the only sensible course of action is for an immediate and simultaneous cease-fire.

The USA and the UK have, however, not been helping the situation. Every country in the world, bar three, has appealed to both sides to call an immediate and mutual end to the slaughter.

The three that have not are:

Israel

USA

UK

Thats how the conversation started

 

[Steve]

Who is "they"?

That big crowd of average-looking people outside your office window. Open it up and ask them, "they" know all the answers

 

[noodlz]

i didnt think it would happen this quick but they are blaming the USA and the UK for the problems in israel and lebenon

The USA and the UK do bear a degree of responsibility for the problems in Israel and Lebanon. Of course, Hezbollah and Israel are also responsible, but it shouldn't be a surprise that the USA and the UK are not blameless, surely?

Think about how the present state of Israel was originally created and how its expansionism was not only not checked but supported by both the USA and the UK. The financial, military, political support and lack of censure, especially from the USA, has been overwhelming and unquestioning. Who knows why it has been so biased...maybe the power of the Jewish lobby and, more sinisterly, how influential is the evangelical Christian movement that truly believes Israel must be supported for this is biblical prophecy? How far does Bush's belief systems affect international policy?

 

[jbonding]

i didnt think it would happen this quick but they are blaming the USA and the UK for the problems in israel and lebenon

The USA and the UK do bear a degree of responsibility for the problems in Israel and Lebanon. Of course, Hezbollah and Israel are also responsible, but it shouldn't be a surprise that the USA and the UK are not blameless, surely?

Think about how the present state of Israel was originally created and how its expansionism was not only not checked but supported by both the USA and the UK. The financial, military, political support and lack of censure, especially from the USA, has been overwhelming and unquestioning. Who knows why it has been so biased...maybe the power of the Jewish lobby and, more sinisterly, how influential is the evangelical Christian movement that truly believes Israel must be supported for this is biblical prophecy? How far does Bush's belief systems affect international policy?

NOOOOOOOO, HOW CAN IT BE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THEM


So you and i are partly to blame?

 

[noodlz]

i didnt think it would happen this quick but they are blaming the USA and the UK for the problems in israel and lebenon

The USA and the UK do bear a degree of responsibility for the problems in Israel and Lebanon. Of course, Hezbollah and Israel are also responsible, but it shouldn't be a surprise that the USA and the UK are not blameless, surely?

Think about how the present state of Israel was originally created and how its expansionism was not only not checked but supported by both the USA and the UK. The financial, military, political support and lack of censure, especially from the USA, has been overwhelming and unquestioning. Who knows why it has been so biased...maybe the power of the Jewish lobby and, more sinisterly, how influential is the evangelical Christian movement that truly believes Israel must be supported for this is biblical prophecy? How far does Bush's belief systems affect international policy?

NOOOOOOOO, HOW CAN IT BE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THEM


So you and i are partly to blame?

I hope you're not morphing into a Joe-90 troll?

By your sarcasm, if you think that the sole resonsiblity for the present situation is solely down to Hezbollah and Israel then so be it, but I'd hope you'd appreciate that there could be other important factors involved.

What I am saying is that the people who make and have made the decisions with regards to international policy in the USA and the UK in the past and present have greatly contributed to the state of the Middle East today. If you wish to interpret that as me saying you and I are partly to blame, that's your prerogative.

 

[jbonding]

i didnt think it would happen this quick but they are blaming the USA and the UK for the problems in israel and lebenon

The USA and the UK do bear a degree of responsibility for the problems in Israel and Lebanon. Of course, Hezbollah and Israel are also responsible, but it shouldn't be a surprise that the USA and the UK are not blameless, surely?

Think about how the present state of Israel was originally created and how its expansionism was not only not checked but supported by both the USA and the UK. The financial, military, political support and lack of censure, especially from the USA, has been overwhelming and unquestioning. Who knows why it has been so biased...maybe the power of the Jewish lobby and, more sinisterly, how influential is the evangelical Christian movement that truly believes Israel must be supported for this is biblical prophecy? How far does Bush's belief systems affect international policy?

NOOOOOOOO, HOW CAN IT BE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THEM


So you and i are partly to blame?

I hope you're not morphing into a Joe-90 troll?

By your sarcasm, if you think that the sole resonsiblity for the present situation is solely down to Hezbollah and Israel then so be it, but I'd hope you'd appreciate that there could be other important factors involved.

What I am saying is that the people who make and have made the decisions with regards to international policy in the USA and the UK in the past and present have greatly contributed to the state of the Middle East today. If you wish to interpret that as me saying you and I are partly to blame, that's your prerogative.

I hope you're not morphing into a Joe-90 troll? What is one of them?
It just makes me laugh how everyone looks for someone to blame and it usually ends up with blair and bush
Lets start with hesbolah.

 

[noodlz]

I hope you're not morphing into a Joe-90 troll? What is one of them?
It just makes me laugh how everyone looks for someone to blame and it usually ends up with blair and bush
Lets start with hesbolah.

Fair enough, but I'm not looking for someone to blame, just how to possibly resolve the situation. Yes, Hezbollah need to be tackled, but they can't be dealt with in isolation to obtain a satisfactory outcome. Why do Hezbollah have so much support? If the original grievances were to be addressed and the USA in particular were more even-handed in the region, Hezbollah would not have so much support.

If only it were a simple black-and-white problem of saying 'Lets start with Hesbolah', then I'd say, go for it, but I believe its more complex than that.

 

[jbonding]

I hope you're not morphing into a Joe-90 troll? What is one of them?
It just makes me laugh how everyone looks for someone to blame and it usually ends up with blair and bush
Lets start with hesbolah.

Fair enough, but I'm not looking for someone to blame, just how to possibly resolve the situation. Yes, Hezbollah need to be tackled, but they can't be dealt with in isolation to obtain a satisfactory outcome. Why do Hezbollah have so much support? If the original grievances were to be addressed and the USA in particular were more even-handed in the region, Hezbollah would not have so much support.

If only it were a simple black-and-white problem of saying 'Lets start with Hesbolah', then I'd say, go for it, but I believe its more complex than that.

Its more complex i agree and adding USA and the UK makes it even more complex. Lets start with hesbolah first. You may call it support, i would say its "your either with us or against us" and you know how you will be treated if your against

 

[noodlz]

Its more complex i agree and adding USA and the UK makes it even more complex. Lets start with hesbolah first. You may call it support, i would say its "your either with us or against us" and you know how you will be treated if your against

Sounds like Bush-speak ....and look where that got him with international problems.

Not sure I'm catching your drift......are you saying the Lebanese people are put in a position of either being with Hezbollah or against them and if they're not with them they'll be persecuted? If so, by all means start with Hezbollah, but how do you propose to do so? To achieve any kind of meaningful resolution a carrot and stick approach needs to be used on both sides, not just a stick on one side.

How would you address the almost universally condemned actions of Israel, apart from by the US and the UK at the moment?

 

[jbonding]

Its more complex i agree and adding USA and the UK makes it even more complex. Lets start with hesbolah first. You may call it support, i would say its "your either with us or against us" and you know how you will be treated if your against

Sounds like Bush-speak ....and look where that got him with international problems.
Not sure I'm catching your drift......are you saying the Lebanese people are put in a position of either being with Hezbollah or against them and if they're not with them they'll be persecuted? If so, by all means start with Hezbollah, but how do you propose to do so? To achieve any kind of meaningful resolution a carrot and stick approach needs to be used on both sides, not just a stick on one side.

How would you address the almost universally condemned actions of Israel, apart from by the US and the UK at the moment?

Stop blaiming bush

I am saying the Lebanise people are persicuted by Hesbolah or do you honestly believe families are happy they are hid in their front rooms? i can see it now "excuse me lads, ive just decorated the front room you couldnt come back next week could you". How do i propose to sort it out,lol. Do you honestly think dangling a carrot to hesbolah hasnt been tried? Do you think they are interested in peace. They are terrorists who are holding a country captive and they need destroying and i think this is the only way, sadly a lot of innocent people are being killed. Do you think Hesbolah care about the civilians as much as you and i?

 

[joe-90]

The real problem is the age-old problem from way back in the thirteenth century.

Way back then there was a Christian army led by Richard the Lionheart and a Muslim army led by a guy who's name was anglicised to Saladin.

They fought over Jerusalem on battle fields in the Middle East.

Today there is a Christian army led by Bush/Blair. They are fighting a Muslim army led by Iran/Syria.

They fight over Jerusalem on battle fields in the Middle East.


As the old saying goes:

Those that don't learn fom history's mistakes are doomed to repeat them.