LABC and Part P

[pdcelec]

Our local council has put a Part P document on its website and it states that all work must be completed by a registered contractor. I believe that this information is incorrect of them. Here is the page

http://www.walsall.gov.uk/Planning/forms/Bregs/Part_P_AdvisoryNotes.pdf

Are they allowed to say such things?

 

[Spark123]

What chance do electricians have when the LABC can't even get their facts right? Has someone given Walsall BC a bung to say this?

 

[Mr Winston]

Our local council has put a Part P document on its website and it states that all work must be completed by a registered contractor. I believe that this information is incorrect of them. Here is the page

http://www.walsall.gov.uk/Planning/forms/Bregs/Part_P_AdvisoryNotes.pdf

Are they allowed to say such things?

But it doesnt say that - all they appear to be saying is that unless the installation is under a competent person scheme the work should be carried out by someone registered with a recognised electrical institution (e.g eca, niceic) who should therefore have current and updated qualifications OR if its a DIY they need to have a qualified guy to test and certify the installation carried out by the DIY-er.

 

[pdcelec]

But a competent person cannot certify work that has been done by others. So they are saying it must be done by a competent person in all instances.

 

[mapj1]

If these are the only options they offer, they are failing in their duty to provide inspections themselves. (even if they subcontract this out)

Contact labc serviceshttp://www.labc-services.co.uk/contactus/default.asp?editorial_id=13869
and see what they reckon.

It does not have to be the householder who organises someone to provide the certificate.
By the way , I beleive full blown NAPIT members are can certify the work of others, not to sign the box as "installer" of course, that would be fraud, but to sign off the 'inspection and testing' part of the form, assuming they do the electrical tests, and they pass.
The DIYer himself signs the section for "design" and "installation", assuming he has done them.
It may be this route your council intended to describe, and they worded it wrong.
BUT they still have a duty to arrange a visit from such an inspector if the housholder does not know one, even if its not one of their staff, but someone they contract in for the day - and only some of his fee can they pass on to you..

 

[pdcelec]

It does say on the form that they will arrange a contractor but at the cost of the person ordering the notification.

 

[Mr Winston]

Looking at it again it looks like the use of term 'competent person' is getting confused.

competent persons schemes are often talked about but strictly speaking the terminology used by walsall looks correct whan they talk about the installer being on a self-certification scheme.

It looks like they are refering to a competent person as someone who is a qualified electrician with updated 16th qualifications (not needed to be on a self certification scheme).

 

[pdcelec]

Here is the best bit. I am a qualified electrician with 20 years experience and work for LA in a different area. When I phoned walsall I was told that I was not considered a competent person and I would have to employ one to complete the works!

 

[andy]

Here is the best bit. I am a qualified electrician with 20 years experience and work for LA in a different area. When I phoned walsall I was told that I was not considered a competent person and I would have to employ one to complete the works!

but the cowboy kitchen fitter with fake electrical qualification documents is 'competent'

 

[TeesdaleSpark]

Here is the best bit. I am a qualified electrician with 20 years experience and work for LA in a different area. When I phoned walsall I was told that I was not considered a competent person and I would have to employ one to complete the works!

I cant see how they can decide that. You can just do the job and give them the certificates then there is nothing they can do about it.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

But a competent person cannot certify work that has been done by others. So they are saying it must be done by a competent person in all instances.

You need to be careful, or more precise, about what you mean by "certify".

Nobody can certify someone else's work as compliant with the Building Regulations except a Building Inspector. That's not a decision of NICEIC/ECA/NAPIT/ELCSA/BSI/UTCAA, it's what the law says.

Anybody who is "competent" (a status which has no official definition whatsoever) can carry out inspection & testing of someone else's work and issue an EIC, and provided they don't use a NICEIC EIC then NICEIC cannot legally prevent them from doing that work. With NAPIT, given what that stands for, my guess is that they impose no such restriction. I've no idea about the others.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

only some of his fee can they pass on to you..

It does say on the form that they will arrange a contractor but at the cost of the person ordering the notification.

According to the reply I had from LABC Services when I postulated this exact scenario was that they are not allowed to pass on any of the costs of subcontracting - they have to fund it entirely out of the standard fee that they charge for processing Building Notices.

 

[pdcelec]

Definitions
here is a dictionary definition of competent

competent
adj

1. Efficient.
2. Having sufficient skill or training to do something.

Thesaurus: qualified, able, capable, proficient, fit.
3. Legally capable.

Derivative: competently
adverb

Etymology: 14c: from Latin competere to meet, be sufficient.

 

[pdcelec]

Here is the relevant parts of what the LBC are saying

1. Confirm that you will provide Electrical Installation Certificates from a
competent contractor e.g., one that is a NICEIC or ECA registered contractor
demonstrating that the work has been designed, installed, inspected and
tested in accordance with BS 7671. Or
2. Confirm the Electrical installation work will be carried out by a competent
contractor registered under one of the new self-certification schemes. e.g. A
person registered by BRE Certification Limited(a) British Standards
Institution(b), ELECSA Limited(c), NICEIC Certification Services Limited(d) or
Zurich Certification Limited(e) in respect of that type of work. In this case
there will be no need to submit to the Local Authority an application.
3. Please note that if the owners of the building, or the builder, are not able to
supply the necessary electrical certificates on the completion of the work
resulting in the local authority having to have the work checked and tested by
a competent Electrical Contractor then the applicant will be invoiced for the
cost of carrying out that work.4.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Definitions
here is a dictionary definition of competent

competent
adj

1. Efficient.

OK - now give us a precise definition of "efficient".

2. Having sufficient skill or training to do something.

OK - now give us a precise definition of "sufficient".

Thesaurus: qualified, able, capable, proficient, fit.
3. Legally capable.

Since the law imposes no absolute requirements regarding competence, the concept of "legally capable" is meaningless.