Lead solder on potable water

[dianef]

Had plumber in today to install the boiler after installing my own pipework.

Halfway through the job I pop round and what do I see - yellow reel with leaded solder used on water pipes - this includes potable water (he forgot his lead free solder in the van).

Is this normal for a jobbing plumber or have I got a bad egg?

 

[muggles]

His work doesn't comply with water regs, all the potable water installation should be ripped out and replaced.

I've never quite understood why anybody carries leaded solder any more, we use lead-free on everything to avoid this confusion

 

[Agile]

Leaded solder is less than half the price!

I am not convinced of any health risk. After all half the houses in London have 20 feet of lead pipe on their water supply.

Nevertheless its very lazy and mean!

As compensation I would suggest you knock £10 off the agreed price. to teach him a lesson.

 

[dianef]

Agile, I guess in the whole scheme of life it doesn't matter. And from 'similar posts' doodah I can see from your replies you don't really believe there is any health risk - thats fair play to you.

But I bet you still use lead free on pottable pipes when you are doing your work.

And its not about few quid difference in solder. Leaded solder just flows better when you can't be arsed to clean your joins properly. The man couldn't even be bothered to use a flux brush, he'd just dip the ends in the pot. Hardly a paragon for your profession.

To teach him a lesson, I'll tell his boss and get him to bring someone else to rip the pipework out and start again. And then I'll want them to check his previous work and correct that too as other customers should have a choice. Is that fair?

 

[gas112]

There is certain things in life that you should worry about .This is not one of them.

 

[Nige F]

But the priciple is worrying - every day there is a new "law" from the EU or our knobhead politicians and we just sit and take it - boiling the frog is how this country is run

 

[gas112]

Perfectly legal for water companies to supply water full of god knows what and weird colours but heaven forbid a bit of leaded solder

 

[DeltaT2]

Agile, I guess in the whole scheme of life it doesn't matter. And from 'similar posts' doodah I can see from your replies you don't really believe there is any health risk - thats fair play to you.

But I bet you still use lead free on pottable pipes when you are doing your work.

And its not about few quid difference in solder. Leaded solder just flows better when you can't be a***d to clean your joins properly. The man couldn't even be bothered to use a flux brush, he'd just dip the ends in the pot. Hardly a paragon for your profession.

To teach him a lesson, I'll tell his boss and get him to bring someone else to rip the pipework out and start again. And then I'll want them to check his previous work and correct that too as other customers should have a choice. Is that fair?

It's no big deal mate, there's worse things in your water supply than a bit of lead. My Granny lived all her life in a tennement building that had all lead pipes, she lived to 96, worked until she was 82 & never had a day of illness in her life. In fact to my knowledge; there was never anyone in her street died of lead poisoning.

You're biggest risk to your health, after the genes you inherit, is the chemicals in the food you eat!! Before they started putting chemicals in our food in the early 20th centuary, very few people died of cancer. Now, one in four can suffer from cancer at one point in their life.

 

[Onetap]

There is certain things in life that you should worry about .This is not one of them.

How did you decide there is no risk?

You'd have to know how much lead is in a domestic water supply with lead-soldered pipes and how much is in the same installation in plastic or lead-free pipes. Do you have those figures? I don't. What's more, you don't either and you can't make a sensible decision. The authors of the Water Regulations did have that information and were recognised experts in their field; they decided on the 'no lead' rules.

Here's the bad news; there is more lead in the lead-soldered water supply. Lead accumulates in the body and small amounts cause damage the development of the nervous system in very young children and foetuses. Why add to the exposure when you can avoid it?

Most lead in the environment is probably from paint dust and petrol additive residues. The insides of old lead water mains will be coated with limescale but water still picks up dissolved lead on its journey between supplier and tap.

 

[Onetap]

My Granny lived all her life in a tennement building that had all lead pipes, she lived to 96, worked until she was 82 & never had a day of illness in her life. In fact to my knowledge; there was never anyone in her street died of lead poisoning.

The main risk is not dying from lead poisoning. The risk is that small levels of lead cause damage to the development of the nervous system and are associated with learning difficulties. You post is evidence of such learning disorders.

Have a search on Google, I'm sure you'll find something about it.

"It never did me any harm" and similar stuff. How would you know?

 

[DeltaT2]

The main risk is not dying from lead poisoning. The risk is that small levels of lead cause damage to the development of the nervous system and are associated with learning difficulties. You post is evidence of such learning disorders.........................

Here mate, I may be as thick as mince, but I come from a good gene pool...............

And I think it should read 'Your' post??!!

 

[dianef]

Ok, so on one hand you can moan about regulations which require you to comply to some minimum, easily achievable standard such as using lead-free solder on pottable water. It shouldn't be hard.

But then you mention how the food companies are putting cancer chemicals in your food and water companies are adding stuff to your water?!? FFS, talk about paranoid - you can actually check your water content online and the food companies tell you on the packet whats in it (thanks to regulations btw).

And off-topic I know but few people died of cancer in 19th century because they were dead from malnourishment or disease long before they reached the age where 1 in 4 gets cancer today. And even if they did get cancer, with no cancer screening how would they know it? And if they did know it, they didn't have ONS to compile the nationwide statistics and produce a 1 in 4 figure.

Ultimately, people like me will report plumbers like this. Someone will compile statistics and if the numbers add up, pass legislation to take the leaded solder off the shelves. If people can't comply to simple rules, the choice gets taken away for everyone. If you don't like it, places like India are far more relaxed about stuff like this. Just don't complain when they send you on the job with some asbestos rope and a pot of monkey muck

 

[DeltaT2]

Ok, so on one hand you can moan about regulations which require you to comply to some minimum, easily achievable standard such as using lead-free solder on pottable water. It shouldn't be hard.

But then you mention how the food companies are putting cancer chemicals in your food and water companies are adding stuff to your water?!? FFS, talk about paranoid - you can actually check your water content online and the food companies tell you on the packet whats in it (thanks to regulations btw).

And off-topic I know but few people died of cancer in 19th century because they were dead from malnourishment or disease long before they reached the age where 1 in 4 gets cancer today. And even if they did get cancer, with no cancer screening how would they know it? And if they did know it, they didn't have ONS to compile the nationwide statistics and produce a 1 in 4 figure.

Ultimately, people like me will report plumbers like this. Someone will compile statistics and if the numbers add up, pass legislation to take the leaded solder off the shelves. If people can't comply to simple rules, the choice gets taken away for everyone. If you don't like it, places like India are far more relaxed about stuff like this. Just don't complain when they send you on the job with some asbestos rope and a pot of monkey muck

Lies, damn lies & then there's statistics!!
As for me being paranoid? With respect, it's you that's on here moaning about one or two fittings with a very small lead content, what about the rat urine in your water supply??.......Hmmmm lovely!!!

Of course, the Plumber should not use lead-content solder on potable water services & of course like cancer, it was not a big consideration in the 19th centuary.

 

[Onetap]

My Granny lived all her life in a tennement building that had all lead pipes, she lived to 96, worked until she was 82 & never had a day of illness in her life. In fact to my knowledge; there was never anyone in her street died of lead poisoning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

" Lead exposure in children is also correlated with neuropsychiatric disorders such as attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and antisocial behavior. Elevated lead levels in children are correlated with higher scores on aggression and delinquency measures. A correlation has also been found between prenatal and early childhood lead exposure and violent crime in adulthood. Countries with the highest air lead levels have also been found to have the highest murder rates, after adjusting for confounding factors.] A May 2000 study by economic consultant Rick Nevin theorizes that lead exposure explains 65% to 90% of the variation in violent crime rates in the US. A 2007 paper by the same author claims to show a strong association between preschool blood lead and subsequent crime rate trends over several decades across nine countries. It is believed that the U.S. ban on lead paint in buildings in the late 1970s, as well as the phaseout of leaded gasoline in the 1970s and 1980s, partially helped contribute to the decline of violent crime in the United States since the early 1990s.

So remind us Dick, whereabouts in Glasgow did your Granny live?

Most lead poisoning in that area is now of the high velocity variety.

 

[Agile]

But I bet you still use lead free on pottable pipes when you are doing your work.

And its not about few quid difference in solder. Leaded solder just flows better when you can't be a***d to clean your joins properly. The man couldn't even be bothered to use a flux brush, he'd just dip the ends in the pot. Hardly a paragon for your profession.

To teach him a lesson, I'll tell his boss and get him to bring someone else to rip the pipework out and start again. And then I'll want them to check his previous work and correct that too as other customers should have a choice. Is that fair?

Firstly, I always use unleaded solder on water pipes. But I always use leaded solder on gas and heating pipes which are 95% of the joints in an average house. Leaded solder flows better and produces a better joint.

The actual risk is extremely low. My house has a lead supply pipe and I have not seen any need to replace it just to remove lead.

In spite of what Onetap says, there has not been any lead in petrol for about 20 years. Thats what the LRP petrol was for.

I dont use a flux brush and instead I dip the solder in the flux and use that to apply to both parts of the joint.

Yes, it does sound as if your plumber is lazy and slapdash. Thats common in our industry. But you also sound like a very vindictive person who wants to "teach him a lesson" when a telling off would suffice.

The pipework does not need to be "ripped out" to comply. All it needs is for the joints to be cut out and short jointing sections of new pipe fitted.

This is a serious thing for him to do in regulation terms but the consequences are minimal.

Tony