LED outdoor security floodlights high failure rate

[dogfonos]

Outdoor LED floodlights have been around a good few years now and I was wondering if my experience is typical...

How are your LED security floodlights holding up? I'd like to know because mine aren't doing so well. I originally started fitting LED lamps as security lights on the outer walls of my property back in 2014. Originally, all lamps had an associated PIR. I soon learnt that PIR's tended to fail even quicker than the LED lamp itself (including PIRs not in any direct sunlight) so I replaced failed PIR's and LED lamps with separate PIR's and LED lamps. At least now it's an easier task to replace either a PIR or an LED lamp when they inevitably fail.

From 2014 through to 2023, I've fitted probably 14 or 15 LED lamps around my property, all with either their own PIR sensor or wired to a separate PIR sensor. Only one has lasted more than five years - a Luceco, although it's associated PIR failed last year. Most fail at around three years. I can't get an accurate figure for how long these LED lamps have been illuminated during their lifetime but I very much doubt any had more than 1000 hours on them, most far less. As Jim Royle might say, "15000 hours? My arse!"

I imagine the fact that security lights could switch on and off quite frequently may limit their lifespan. Surely these products should last at least five years? Or are my expectations unreasonable? I've used various brands - are any brands known for their longevity? I'd be interested to hear the experience others have with LED outdoor security lamps.

 

[chivers67]

I've only fitted one down the side of my house. I fitted it a number of years ago and it's still working well, it's made by Timeguard, wasn't cheap, PIR's don't seem to last long when they're on walls facing strong sunlight from my work experience(s)..

 

[ericmark]

Fitted 2 one from Aldi other Screwfix, the Aldi one designed for quartz but fitted LED lamp, failed due to water, drilled drain hole, which fixed it, and was working when house sold, and Screwfix one again too sensitive PIR but working when house sold.

This house, the lamps were quartz, real pain as switching on/off like a road crossing lamp, so swapped for carrage lamps with smart bulbs, rather new, so don't know how long they will last.

I don't want to make it easy for intruders, so not keen on PIR's, but until the smart bulb, no real option to have a light show way up drive.

But already had smart sockets fail, so that maybe is not the answer.

 

[sparkymarka]

I only buy the ones with 5 year warranty ( normally a Samsung led panel ) think V-TAC ) and only fit GJD lighting controllers so not really had any issues …..but most people won’t pay for these lighting systems ….

 

[Old Salt]

3 or 4 years at most out of mine but I only ever pay about £15.

 

[JohnW2]

..... Most fail at around three years. I can't get an accurate figure for how long these LED lamps have been illuminated during their lifetime but I very much doubt any had more than 1000 hours on them, most far less. As Jim Royle might say, "15000 hours? My arse!"

It does seem that some people are experiencing unexpectedly lifespan of LEDs, although I have to say that such is not my experience, either with standard LED lamps/bulbs and LED 'tubes' (in both cases,, generally 'the cheapest I can find').

However, as always, I will remind people about what the 'expectations' should be. An average (median) expected lifespan of, say, 15,000 hours means that half of the products will last for at least 15,000 hours, but tells us nothing about the other half. If half of the products failed in the first 24 hours, but the other half last for at least 15,000 hours, that would still be an average (median)lifespan of 15,000 hours - and early (sometimes very early) failures can be quite common with manufactured products.

I therefore just want to remind people that a substantial proportion of fairly (or even very)early failures is not necessarily an indication that the claimed 'average' lifespan is 'incorrect', or not be enjoyed.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

It does seem that some people are experiencing unexpectedly lifespan of LEDs, although I have to say that such is not my experience, either with standard LED lamps/bulbs and LED 'tubes' (in both cases,, generally 'the cheapest I can find').

However, as always, I will remind people about what the 'expectations' should be. An average (median) expected lifespan of, say, 15,000 hours means that half of the products will last for at least 15,000 hours, but tells us nothing about the other half. If half of the products failed in the first 24 hours, but the other half last for at least 15,000 hours, that would still be an average (median)lifespan of 15,000 hours - and early (sometimes very early) failures can be quite common with manufactured products.

I therefore just want to remind people that a substantial proportion of fairly (or even very)early failures is not necessarily an indication that the claimed 'average' lifespan is 'incorrect', or not be enjoyed.

Kind Regards, John

Yes I basically agree, however would we have ever dreamt the 500W linear lamps would only last 5 years and how often were there any queeries about short lifespans? How many have been in service for 10, 20, 30, 40 years?

I personally know of 2 of the old, 'Sunfloods' (the type with no glass and letterbox shaped) still in use for at least 32 years still working on a pir (which has been replaced several times) however they are not very bright now, due partly to the corroded reflector and partly to the discoloured bulb.

I have to state that is exceptional and far beyond what I'd ever expect, I don't imagine the bulbs are originals but the state of them indicates they've been there a long time. 3 enclosed PIR 500W fittings I installed about 1998-2000, customer requested 12 replacement bulbs and 1 fitting for stock, there are still 5 bulbs so average lifespan of bulbs around 10 years and 18 years minimum for fittings.

 

[securespark]

I fitted a Screwfix LED flood in the back a few years ago and it died after about 18m. Only switched via a wall switch and not used that often.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes I basically agree,

There's really nothing to disagree with, since I was merely stating mathematical truths

however would we have ever dreamt the 500W linear lamps would only last 5 years and how often were there any queeries about short lifespans? How many have been in service for 10, 20, 30, 40 years?

I have no experience of such animals, but there are certainly some sorts of lamps/bulbs/tubes which usually seem to last a very long time.

However, one has to remember that this is just 'the other side of the maths'. Just as an 'average' (median) claimed lifespan of, say, 15,000 hours tells one nothing about the half of the products which fail before 15,000 h, nor does it tell one anything about those which last for 15,000 h or longer. Hence (extending my previous example), if half of them fail within the first 24 hours, one fails at just 15,000 hours and the remainder (virtually half) last until at least 150,000 hours, that is still an 'average' (median) lifespan of 15,000 hours.

I personally know of 2 of the old, 'Sunfloods' (the type with no glass and letterbox shaped) still in use for at least 32 years still working on a pir (which has been replaced several times) however they are not very bright now, due partly to the corroded reflector and partly to the discoloured bulb.

For what it's worth, there are at least three fluorescent tubes (admittedly very little used) in my house which were present (and not new, even then) when I moved here nearly 36 years ago, and are still working fine.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

T

For what it's worth, there are at least three fluorescent tubes (admittedly very little used) in my house which were present (and not new, even then) when I moved here nearly 36 years ago, and are still working fine.

Kind Regards, John

Yeah, I salvaged some fluo fittings from work when a telephone exchange was dismantled/scrapped. Initially I installed them in my workshop around 1985 then reinstalled in my workshop when I moved in 1994. the fitting and tubes were in no way new when I purchased them but still going strong. they probably average 1-2 hours per week these days maybe 20-25 hours back in 85 (also housed washing machine, dishwasher and bit of a store for kids toys etc) and very likely 40 hours prior to that. I'd be surprised it they haven't clocked up 10-15000 hours.

 

[ericmark]

The fire house 100 year old bulb is often quoted, although likely pre-dates tungsten, and I bought a second hand emergency lamp 18 watt HF ballast fluorescent in 1994 fitted top of stairs in only house, renewed the tube once, the batteries have now failed but tube still A1.

As to LED I have now had some fail, around half a dozen, annoying as three were smart bulbs, but in the days of tungsten I would renew a bulb on average once a fortnight, and I kept a stock, I still have a stock, but really since moving to LED not required.

However my house does have a SPD and there are no industrial premises near me, my son fitted a load of GU10 lights, and has changed nearly every one, as to if due to faulty bulbs, or spikes on the supply who can tell.

However outside lights normally fail due to water, and a small hole so water can drain seems far better than trying to seal them.

 

[JohnW2]

As to LED I have now had some fail, around half a dozen, annoying as three were smart bulbs, but in the days of tungsten I would renew a bulb on average once a fortnight, and I kept a stock, I still have a stock, but really since moving to LED not required.

Indeed so. As you are aware, for my sins I live in a very large house, with an awful lot of lights - I think that last time I attempted a rough count, there was a total of something like 120 bulbs/lamps/tubes (many 'multi-bulb fittings'), albeit a lot of them are very little used these days.

For the first decade or two after I moved here (in 1987) I had to buy very large batches of bulbs at least two or three times per year. Since changing almost entirely to LEDs (after a brief period of CFLs), I now buy very small batches of LEDs (usually 'the cheapest I can find) 'once per year, if that.

Like you, I still have a large stockpile of incandescent bulbs (and CFLs), which are really doing nothing but taking up space!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

On reading your post, I thought no one has that many bulbs, then looked around my own living room, 22 bulbs and 3 strip lights.

SoI suppose yes likely I also have a large count, 7 outside lamps, and two sets of Chrismas lights for outside, and two waiting to be fitted.

Not counting solar lights.

Some day I will install more lights, but planning garden first.

The solar lights are either useless, or have not lasted, and PIR control either keeps lights on when not required, or worse switches them off before I have got through the door, but smart lights not been up a month yet, so too soon to say how good they are.

 

[JohnW2]

On reading your post, I thought no one has that many bulbs, then looked around my own living room, 22 bulbs and 3 strip lights. ... SoI suppose yes likely I also have a large count, 7 outside lamps, and two sets of Chrismas lights for outside, and two waiting to be fitted.

Yes, it adds up very quickly.

My living room can't quite compete with yours. I have 8 high uplighters (with single bulbs/lamps), 2 standard lamps, 2 table lamps, 3 spotlights and an emergency light - so 'only' 16 in total.
The worst is probably my kitchen+'breakfast room'. It has 5 x 3-bulb fittings, 2 single ceiling lights, 4 within-cupboard lights, one above the cooker and an emergency light - so 23 in total.
My dining room as 2 x 5-bulb fittings, 2 wall lights, one standard lamp and one table lamp - so 14 in total.

So that's 53 just for three rooms on one floor of a 3-storey+cellar+garden house. The cellar alone has 8 LED tubes, 8 single lights and an emergency light. As I said, when I last tried to do a rough count, I think the grand total was about 120.

Kind Regards, John

 

[dogfonos]

Thanks for your replies. Seems a few of us have found that LED security lights fail unexpectedly early and very few examples (in this thread as yet) of outdoor LED security lamps lasting anything like 15000 hours.

I only buy the ones with 5 year warranty ( normally a Samsung led panel ) think V-TAC ) and only fit GJD lighting controllers so not really had any issues

Haven't seen any LED security lights with a 5 year warranty though I'm picking up two 10W ones on Friday that have three year warranties and only coast £9 each.

An average (median) expected lifespan of, say, 15,000 hours means that half of the products will last for at least 15,000 hours, but tells us nothing about the other half.

I therefore just want to remind people that a substantial proportion of fairly (or even very)early failures is not necessarily an indication that the claimed 'average' lifespan is 'incorrect', or not be enjoyed.

True, but it certainly doesn't prove the manufacturers' lifespan figures either.

Personally, I'd be keen to see the LED manufacturers' documented justification for their average service life claims (I didn't realise LED lifespan was expressed as a median average, I assumed it was mean). Before I posted this thread, I asked friends and colleagues their experiences with LED security lighting which turned out to be similar to my own.

It may well be that, under perfect usage and environmental conditions, 50%+ of the actual LEDs do last for 15000 hours (or whatever lifetime figure is advertised) but real liife anecdotal evidence (albeit limited) suggests this isn't the case at the moment. A larger survey is needed!

Other factors may shorten the life of the LED, such as water ingress, large temperature variations (overheating), electrical supply spikes and the number of on/off switchings. I think it's also possible that the LED driver fails before the LEDs themselves. Most of my current LED security lights are (almost) cast sealed with no access to the electronics within, so whether it's the driver or the actual LEDs that fail, there's no way to effect a repair. The lamps end up being "recycled". Yeh, right - I'm cynical enough about materials recycling to hazard a guess that these new sealed LED lamps won't be recycled as it's too resource-intensive so may well end up in landfill. I'd really like to be proven wrong on this because such wastage would be an environmental crime.

To end on a positive note...
My first experience of LED lamps came in the early days of mains LED lighting when I purchased two 2W corn-style lamps direct from China. Fitted them to my garage as external bulkhead lights and they both lasted 10+ years. The lamps were controlled by a photocell, not a PIR, and, averaged over a year, were lit for around 12 hours per day. I worked out that the service life of each exceeded 50,000 hours - so it can be done.