LED tube replacement

[SUNRAY]

Been done to death but...

Our kitchen has 3 5ft flou fittings in a line above the suspended ceiling used as a two and a one and time to replace the tubes, actually one failed to strike properly last week so replaced with one retained from last change.

So time for a change to LED? Until recently I have failed to see any advantage, only disadvantage... However I recently replaced a 2ft fitting (Failed magnetic) with 2ft LED from Lidl and oh boy it's good, the 9W knocks spots of the 18W fluo and I'm waiting for them to comeback in the store to replace another.

Moving on I got a VTAC 5ft tube 20W 2100LM 6500K (Toolstation) and replaced the fluo in the kitchen. Dingy doesn't go anywhere near the description, removing the prismatic tiles makes virtually no difference. For a Zoom meeting the light level was so poor the video was too noisy so I replaced the old darkened ends tube. Looking directly at he lights the LED looks to be very much brighter than the fluo but I don't know how much of that is due to colour cast.

My question is simply: I hear so many say how good, how bright LED tubes are, what brands are you using and what colour?

 

[RandomGrinch]

5ft 24w LED Fluorescent Tube - Daylight - 4000 Lumens | LEDlite (LTT524HDL)

It's in my loft, a tad brighter than the 58W tube it replaced, and I like the daylight tone.

 

[flameport]

I have said this before - but unless someone is desperate to keep the old fittings, sling them away and buy new dedicated LED battens. Decent ones which will have full specifications and photometric data available before purchase so you know exactly what you are getting in terms of colour temperature, light output and quality.

Replacement tubes are a total lottery as to what you get and whether they will work in existing fittings without rewiring. They are also compromised in terms of cooling due to the form factor.

 

[ericmark]

The LED tube I got sends out light in one direction only, 90º to direction of the two pins, I remember my father-in-laws old house with recessed fluorescent fittings and I am assuming you have the same problem as he would have had in that the tube faces in the wrong direction.

The fluorescent is wired like this

when you fit a LED it is like this

the ballast just warms up and does nothing, so better simply shorted out, many show feed to one end only

but this means if tube fitted wrong way around it is a short circuit. I would think a strip light would work better, these can be placed so light is in correct direction I assume your looking for something like this? However my problem was the driver or power supply is often built into a plug.

I had a problem lighting my living room, and I have a collection of lights from ceiling to display cabinet, to up-lighters and reading lamps, and using a number of lights together there is enough light, but clearly when entering or leaving the room one wants to turn multi lamps on/off, I got around the problem by using smart controls, but it was not cheap.

I have two of these at 17 watt, £25, 1500 lumen each colour changing but the 5 foot fluorescent is around 5500 lumen so to get that amount of light takes some doing. My son replaced one 5 foot fluorescent with 14 down lights, I would think around 3.5 watt each, so 49 watt instead of 58 watt, not much of a saving.

I got a couple of these from Lidi and they seem very good, but never seen them for sale again.

 

[Sureitsoff?]

I also used v-tac tubes above a suspended ceiling and am very pleased so unless you have a duff one I can't understand why you think it's dingy.

Edit... Is the ceiling painted white or just plaster coloured? It makes a big difference.

 

[SUNRAY]

I also used v-tac tubes above a suspended ceiling and am very pleased so unless you have a duff one I can't understand why you think it's dingy.

Well at 2100lm compared to 5000lm or so I'm really not surprised we noticed the difference

Edit... Is the ceiling painted white or just plaster coloured? It makes a big difference.

It had a fresh coat of white emulsion just before we decided to fit the suspended ceiling albeit a number of years ago but yes white.

I have said this before - but unless someone is desperate to keep the old fittings, sling them away and buy new dedicated LED battens. Decent ones which will have full specifications and photometric data available before purchase so you know exactly what you are getting in terms of colour temperature, light output and quality.

I wish I had counted exactly how many LED fitting I have been party to restoring BACK TO fluorescent (possibly hundreds) due to the pathetic light levels and I'd guesstimate 50:50 LED battens:LED tubes (mixture of tube in old fitting/new fittings). Realistically I don't believe there had been much to chose between the different versions. I fullym understand and respect that others experiences vary.

I don't expect the spec for a tube to be a blatant lie and on that basis I expect the stated 20W 2100Lm 6500K to be somewhere near correct and I'd also expect any other products spec to be equally correct. Since posting I've borrowed an Energiser 22W 2260Lm 6500K and stated as up to 66% more energy efficient, its performance is similarly lacking compared to fluo.

I've never been able to work out how some users claim a light product quoted at half the light output of another is comparable as a replacement or manufacturers claim they are more efficient.

However as already mentioned; I was impressed recently when replacing a 2ft Fluo (1300Lm or so) with a cheap 9W 900Lm 4000K (tube appears to be branded 'Elight) unit from Lidl and assumed my experience had become redundant but this particular VTAC tube has done nothing to dispel that thought.

In this situation I'd prefer to retain the currend form factor as far as possible to avoid the large dark patch generated by the SMPS at the ends of LED battens which in my experience is greater than that of tubes although I'll not make any claim to know all fittings available.

5ft 24w LED Fluorescent Tube - Daylight - 4000 Lumens | LEDlite (LTT524HDL)

It's in my loft, a tad brighter than the 58W tube it replaced, and I like the daylight tone.

That light level is looking more like it, Thanks I'l give one a try.

The tubes we have always used in the kitchen are day light too.

 

[SUNRAY]

Yesterday I went with a colleague to a church hall, as it happens one I am familiar with which I suspect is why I was asked to go along. For 2 years people have been complaining about the lighting and just recently they lost the final day time booking because of it. Regular bookings have dropped from 22 to 10 per week and the suggestion is due to lights. The hall is 12x10m and lit by 9 6ft LED self contained battens, as recommended by some sort of churchs energy inspection to replace the 9 6ft flou fittings.

The complaints started as soon as the change was made. Even one of the church craft groups who used to get the space FOC now pay to use a different hall as they say they can't see to thread the needles. This pic was taken a year ago on a bright May day and as can be seen there are high level windows both sides (I think 3 one side 2 t'other) yesterday was a dull day and switching the lights on didn't make a dramatic difference but suspending a 4ft fluo batten half way between 2 of those did. We had the local church administrator and someone from the energy incection team there and both made an unenthusiastic sound when it was switched on.

Yesterday:

Sorry but I'm struggling to find any enthusiasm for LED space lighting.

 

[SUNRAY]

I was round at this hall yesterday and the admin person was on the phone having a winge.
As mentioned before they lost a lot of bookings so financially losing out due the the horrible LED lights which the original assessors have been back to verify are adequate, however our little experiment with one 4ft fluo fitting blew the LED light into kingdom come.
I don't know the heirarchy of the building governance but they are not permitted to now move away from the products fitted.
The original 6ft fluo fittings were replaced with LED in 2022, when I was there in April last year I was not aware 2 had already been replaced under guarantee, since then 6 more have been replaced at a cost of a 'call out' (The winge being it had now gone up to £65+VAT) plus the fitting.

Hmm let me see now how this economical LED lighting really works...
It cost £900 to have the fittings changed but there was some 'central grant' of 50%
The new fittings are 60W so they are only saving 10W per fitting (90W for the whole space or ~5p per hour)
The hall hire income has dropped to below half
It's currently costing six call outs in 18 months or 4 per year £260 + the cost of fittings + VAT (£300-400) to replace failures

What a load of expensive C R A P it has turned out to be for them

£350 cost/5pph = 7000hrs = 10 months @ 24/7 they'd have to run their old inefficient fluos for to lose that much.

Even dividing it by the 3 years they've been there it's 3 months of 24/7, however going back to their original 22 weekday bookings, assuming 100 hours = 70 Weeks.

Let's not forget in these calculations I've not included losing half of their booking revenue to support the extra costs.

 

[AndyPRK]

If they can't replace the those fittings, add some decent ones inbetween. (on a different switch).
Don't bother to turn the old ones on! They should last then, for the inspections

 

[SUNRAY]

If they can't replace the those fittings, add some decent ones inbetween. (on a different switch).
Don't bother to turn the old ones on! They should last then, for the inspections

It really is not that easy in church properties.

 

[FrodoOne]

Sorry SUNRAY.
I think that you really should get used to considering "LED Panel" Luminaires.
These have a wide area of illumination,
as compared to Fluorescent Battens and their "LED Tube" Batten replacements.

(e.g. https://www.ledpanelstore.co.uk/ )

 

[Munroast]

just fitted my first LED replacement tube yesterday, we have 4 x 6' fluorescent fittings in the garage, one of the 70w tubes was finished, so bought a LED for £10.50 (lap T8 24w) - swapped the tubes over fitted dunny starter and works perfectly, don't think it is any brighter than the others

 

[AndyPRK]

Yeah I have fitted panels in kitchens.

Amazed how they light up the other side of the room so well.

 

[ericmark]

just fitted my first LED replacement tube yesterday, we have 4 x 6' fluorescent fittings in the garage, one of the 70w tubes was finished, so bought a LED for £10.50 (lap T8 24w) - swapped the tubes over fitted dunny starter and works perfectly, don't think it is any brighter than the others

I also fitted a 22 watt LED to replace the 65/58 watt fluorescent and the drop from 5000 lumens to 2000 lumens did not matter as it never really needed the 5000 lumens to start with.
But where you do need the lumens, then it would need a new fitting, be it the silly integral type when you can't renew the bulb, or twin fluorescent type, basic point is one needs a 50 watt LED lamps to replace a 58 watt fluorescent, the efficiency of a 58 watt fluorescent with an electronic ballast is around 95 lumens per watt, and LED around 100 lumens per watt. So very little gain swapping fluorescent to LED.

However, to allow the wire wound ballast to remain in the fitting, there will be a volt drop across it, so the LED is half the output of the fluorescent. By the time the volt drop is taken into account, the LED is fewer lumens per watt as the fluorescent. But the arsenic in the LED is considered less dangerous as the mercury in the fluorescent tube, so we are being forced to change.

In this house I had the same problem, it was designed to have a 150 watt tungsten bulb in the centre of the room, I have now found high output LED's

but these were not available when I moved in, at least in local shops, so ended up with an 8 bulb chandelier, which still does not light the room enough, so also up-lighters, and cabinet lights to supplement the chandelier.

Having up-lighters or spot lights on poles the territorial standard lamp, is not really going to work in a church hall.

 

[Munroast]

i think the 24w led is just as bright as the 70w fluorescents ! which is what i would have expected, LED gives more light per watt than flo