LED tube replacement

[chivers67]

Although I understand Flameports views on this matter, the company I work for has a view on trying to reduce waste and re-use equipment. I have worked on a NRTS National Highways contract and part of that is maintaining Transmission Stations (TS).

We had a project to swap out fluorescent tubes replacing with LED by converting the old fittings, we recorded with a clamp meter the load from the Old fittings with Fluorescent tubes and then LED tubes and the current was about a 1/3 per tube. Now imagine that over the whole of England baring in mind there are TS every 12 miles along every Motorway and some major truck roads (A1, A2, A3 A14 in the South alone). The power saving over the course of the life of those Tubes will be quite substantial
with less WEE waste in the process. Some TS have three tubes some up to nine. We used many Phillips.

 

[chivers67]

Yesterday I went with a colleague to a church hall, as it happens one I am familiar with which I suspect is why I was asked to go along. For 2 years people have been complaining about the lighting and just recently they lost the final day time booking because of it. Regular bookings have dropped from 22 to 10 per week and the suggestion is due to lights. The hall is 12x10m and lit by 9 6ft LED self contained battens, as recommended by some sort of churchs energy inspection to replace the 9 6ft flou fittings.View attachment 339237
The complaints started as soon as the change was made. Even one of the church craft groups who used to get the space FOC now pay to use a different hall as they say they can't see to thread the needles. This pic was taken a year ago on a bright May day and as can be seen there are high level windows both sides (I think 3 one side 2 t'other) yesterday was a dull day and switching the lights on didn't make a dramatic difference but suspending a 4ft fluo batten half way between 2 of those did. We had the local church administrator and someone from the energy incection team there and both made an unenthusiastic sound when it was switched on.

Yesterday:
Sorry but I'm struggling to find any enthusiasm for LED space lighting.

I can't help thinking the hall could do with painting White rather than be left as Grey block work as light would reflect off the walls.

Maybe as suggested by Frodo installing panels would give a more even spread of light but it is a different quality of light compared to old style Fluorescent.

 

[SUNRAY]

Sorry SUNRAY.
I think that you really should get used to considering "LED Panel" Luminaires.
These have a wide area of illumination,
as compared to Fluorescent Battens and their "LED Tube" Batten replacements.

(e.g. https://www.ledpanelstore.co.uk/ )

Hmmm yes perhaps I should

To quote just 3:
https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/fluoresent-or-led.601296/page-3#post-5362661 #40
https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/garage-lighting.526463/page-2#post-4416510 #18
https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/thorn-6ft-twin-ballast-wiring.540561/page-2#post-4571686 #30 penultimate paragraph
and there are possibly more I've mentioned on here

That halls running costs are now being subsidised by the PCC EDIT where it was financially self supporting and the only thing that has occurred is the massive increase of lighting cost leading to the significant drop in bookings by the inferior lighting.

My experience of LED panels and LED battens is very mixed but I find there are so many more negatives than positives,

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

In this house I had the same problem, it was designed to have a 150 watt tungsten bulb in the centre of the room, I have now found high output LED's

but these were not available when I moved in, at least in local shops, so ended up with an 8 bulb chandelier, which still does not light the room enough, so also up-lighters, and cabinet lights to supplement the chandelier.

A year or two back, I decided to fit a remote control ceiling fan/light of some sort, as an alternative to using a portable fan. We only rarely use the ceiling light anyway, preferring the bedside lighting. That has been perfect since, and on full bright, offers much more light than we needed.

I decided I would get around to fitting a similar sort unit of unit, to the living room, when I got a roundtuit. I got a roundtuit yesterday and installed almost the identical unit. It's remote wireless control, dimmable, colour temperature adjustable, provides for more light than needed, and the fan has six speeds....https://www.temu.com/uk/modern-15-7-inch-led-ceiling-fan-with-light-remote-control-6--dimmable-energy--for-bedroom-living-room-dining-room-bedroom-ceiling-fan-modern-ceiling-fan-infrared-sensor-function-ceiling-fan-for-living-room-g-601100119446527.html?_oak_name_id=6605159801626544159&_oak_mp_inf=EP%2Bn4Lio1ogBGiBhYjNjOTMyNGY0ZDY0YzJmYjBkMTc1NWNjNDVlNGI5MSD89a%2BomzM%3D&top_gallery_url=https%3A%2F%2Fimg.kwcdn.com%2Fproduct%2Ffancy%2F14a9849c-016a-4f83-978d-001c74f9a51a.jpg&spec_gallery_id=601100119446527&refer_page_sn=10009&refer_source=0&freesia_scene=2&_oak_freesia_scene=2&_oak_rec_ext_1=NDQ5Mw&_oak_gallery_order=291063833%2C2041308896%2C2013243445%2C1163369068%2C336128982&search_key=fan%20light%20ceiling%20with%20remote&refer_page_el_sn=200049&_x_sessn_id=pu5mawplph&refer_page_name=search_result&refer_page_id=10009_1759679087955_4ubg90tmwn

 

[SUNRAY]

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not anti LED. I happily use LED floodlights in place of 500W Halogens (but still use halogens a portable auditorium uplighting in AmDram) and despite the initial redicilus difficulty of finding reliable G4 bulbs (I can't remember the detail now but it was something like 4 full sets of 10 or 12 bulbs [3 triple fittings, 2 in hall and one upstairs] and £60-80 in maybe 2 years of failing bulbs) have not now changed many for a number of years, another tripple fitting, originally 20W halogon but now LED and replacing BC's with LED as they fail around the house. However I find, as do others LED tubes and fittings are not a match for flou

 

[SUNRAY]

i think the 24w led is just as bright as the 70w fluorescents ! which is what i would have expected, LED gives more light per watt than flo

I've found there are many out there who wholeheartedly disagree.

 

[SUNRAY]

I can't help thinking the hall could do with painting White rather than be left as Grey block work as light would reflect off the walls.

Yes you are probably right but with the fluo's there was never an issue and a simple demonstration of suspending a 4ft flou between 2 of the LED battens absolutely blew away shadow created by the LEDs.

 

[Munroast]

I've found there are many out there who wholeheartedly disagree.

how could i put a figure on it - what might I have that measures light ?

 

[Munroast]

how could i put a figure on it - what might I have that measures light ?

found an old light meter, did some tests, from about two foot away, the old fluorescents gave a reading of 6 (all 3 gave the same reading) the all new LED with its claimed 'same brightness', gave a reading of 5.6
GPT tell me these are very linear scales so it is reasonable to assume that the fluorescents are 7% brighter.

change of subject - the light meter that I didn't know i still had, doubt I have seen it this century. A "Leningrad 4" a real relic from the cold war. they made things well back then, still working after 50 + years

 

[JohnW2]

I've found there are many out there who wholeheartedly disagree.

I can''t speak for "light per Watt" but, as I've often reported I have replaced many fluoro tubes with same-length LED tubes (hence about half the Watts) in domestic situations and have invariably found that the illumination they provided was more than enough.

I think there are at least two possible. Firstly I think that many domestic fluoro tubes were seriously 'overpowered', probably primarily because one did not get a choice of 'wattage' for a given length of tube (and tube length tended to be chosen on the basis of room shape/size). Secondly, the fact that light output from an LED tube is much more directional may well mean that, at least in some circumstances, a greater proportion of their light output 'goes where it's needed'.

 

[morqthana]

The power saving over the course of the life of those Tubes will be quite substantial

How so?

How often are the lights turned on?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

how could i put a figure on it - what might I have that measures light ?

Many smart phones, can download an app, which measures light levels.

 

[Munroast]

Many smart phones, can download an app, which measures light levels.

don't have a smart phone - they're just for cabbages

 

[FrodoOne]

don't have a smart phone - they're just for cabbages

We all have our problems!

 

[chivers67]

How so?

How often are the lights turned on?

Every time a telecom O&M engineer visits to complete maintenance or complete faults & annual electrical maintenance which lasts three hours on each visit the tubes should last years & years.