Lighting circuit without earth - mounting flush posible?!

[Chri5]

Why not do the part rewire and sort the drops to the switches?

You intend to bash the walls for back box fitting, and there's every chance remedial plastering will be required for that job.

Then you get metal boxes, choice of any switch and choice of light fitting.

I take it you as a degree qualified person understand the risks of metal switches and light fittings (I bet you have a few) faults and no earthing arrangement on the circuit?

If not bothered about a (admittedly) rare chance of danger for you, what about the innocent person would goes to change a blown bulb on a live metal lamp fitting with a fault.

There's also the negative value of the work your doing should you ever sell.

Old wiring evidence at the cu, new switches, PIR required. Code 2 (I think) for no lighting cpc and there's a potential buyers excuse to drop the offer by a grand or so.

Please do the right thing, tarting up a poor job is very poor form.

 

[eniacs]

RF lighting;

Your right - im am an arrogant sod that once set on an idea just goes with it - as i said im happy to live with plastic fascias but i would like to mount them in the wall with the minimum of fus and further disturbance to the house.

 

[bernardgreen]

RF lighting;

Thanks for the usefull replies! Why did you bother posting here!

Because I like to help people carry out safe electrical installations.

When someone is just going to bludgeon on regardless of what everyone is telling them then WTF is the point of me even trying?

I guess at this rate there will have to be a new section added to DIYnot on the subject of first aid after electrocution and other injuries that are known to occur as a result of defective wiring, bodged wiring and wiring that has become un-safe through age or abuse.

 

[sparkwright]

Flameport;

I was worried about the ceilings in the ground floor - i'd have to rip down the ceiling or pull up the floors and every single light in the house is a wall mount light (apart from kitchen and bathroom thinking about it)

you wouldn't rip ceilings down.
cables can be fished through voids with minimal damage.
you would have the opportunity to fit lights on the ceilings or anywhere you like.

there is a very good chance there are conduits in a house built in 1959.

 

[333rocky333]

every single light in the house is a wall mount light (apart from kitchen and bathroom thinking about it)
.

Are they all double insulated .

Bit of a bodge to use in the wall, but have a look at the pvc boxes that fit in dado trunking.

 

[Johnmelad502]

I guess at this rate there will have to be a new section added to DIYnot on the subject of first aid after electrocution and other injuries that are known to occur as a result of defective wiring, bodged wiring and wiring that has become un-safe through age or abuse.

Or we could have a board about helping people do what they need to do safely when they can't afford to pay an electrician to do it.

 

[bongos]

There are MCB's fitted as the main consumer unit has been replaced very recently...

Thanks, Steve.

Hi, Steve. I thought (I could well be wrong ) that if replacing the CU you would need to sort out the lack of earth in the lighting circuits anyway?

How do you get R1+R2 with no earth? Surely the RCD's wouldn't work properly? Bit confused!

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

Hi eniacs,

You say that the sockets are easy to chop in, then you'll put nice shiny metal fronts on.
Will you really be happy with the finished article if you have metal sockets along side plastic light switches that feed double insulated wall lights?
assuming the wire to the light fittings is the same,
You might be restricted in choice for decorative wall lights if you can only have class2 stuff.

You say the C/U was changed recently, does the paperwork for that change highlight the lack of cpc or is the C/U labelled accordingly?

 

[AndrewDavie]

Since this is a DIY forum, and you have specifically said you aren't going to rewire, the next best thing is to use plastic backboxes.

I have the same problem with old lighting wiring in my house. Some of if I've had to rewire, but some of it is damn awkward to replace having now been covered with built-in bookcases. The only solution I've come up with so far (without trashing the bookcases) is to drill 3' diagonally through brick. I'm sitting on the problem for a while. I might come up with something easier in a few months...

 

[eniacs]

Hi Bongos/Mik;

The CU is marked up correctly indicating no earth and to not replace with metal fascias...

The previous owners were elderly and had the CU box changed by council/government for free.
At the same time they seem to have had all the light fittings replaced with identical wall lights - of course they are totally ceramic/glass fixtures - no metal at all.

Not sure how the RCD's work on this circuit to be honest.

I'd be quite happy with modern plastic switches and metal fascia sockets - the difference in work will be huge compared to rewiring. I plan to extend the place a fair amount in a few years time - this would be an ideal time to rewire and the current reg's should have sorted themselves out by then.

Andrew;

Nightmare istn it!

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

RCD wont help you if you become a L/N short. It'll work if you become a L/E short, so if no cpc, is there any still any benefit with a rcd?
IMO, its still yes, as its still possible to be L/E link if there is other earthy metalwork in the property.

If you've made a considered judgement to do it the way you want, having listened to the worthy advice from others, then might i suggest you consider just using normal back boxes but then use fascias which have the little plastic inserts that cover the standard screw heads instead of tinkering around with poxy plastic screws

 

[RF Lighting]

RCDs are used to protect against a live to earth fault.

This of course includes a human making the link between live and earth (i.e. in contact with something live and the floor)

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There is nothing wrong with the wiring at present it just doesnt have an earth!

FFS.

Im all for improving, but its not necesary here...

Idiot.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I had allready considered the rewire option and ruled it out. It hasnt needed doing for the last 50 years so im not about to do it now!

Idiot.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Why dont you just hold your chins, breath deeply and tell me how many hundreds it will cost...

Less than a funeral.

Its been SAFE and WORKED for 50 years now, its not going to change in the future.

Idiot.

I'll go with the standard PVC box in the wall i think. I have 3 weeks to complete the house not 3 months!

Idiot.