lighting questions

[Georgi1303]

hi guys i hope you will be able to help with a couple of questions i have.

i have 3 light switches in my front room, 1 switch runs 1 ceiling rose and 2 switches run another ceiling rose. originally 1 switch run 1 light up one end of the room and another switch run the other light.
the light that is run by 1 switch is being removed (switch and light) when i have located the wires, for switch and rose, is it safe to chop the wires under the floorboards upstairs and use a terminal block to render them safe ? or do i need to trace them back to the junction box ?

the previous owner moved a doorway and installed a new switch to the new door location keeping the original switch where it was (floating in the middle of a wall now !) i now would like to remove the original (floating) switch and run the light of the 1 switch which is at that end of the room. the original switch has 2 sets of wires going to it and the new switch has 1 set. which is the best way of doing this ?

and lastly when i have completed those tasks i would like to then add 3 downlighters which i would like to run from a new switch. is it a case of running a feed over to the new switch and then onto the downlighters daisy chain sytle and if so where is the best location to get a feed from ?

i hope that makes sense and you guys will be able to help. id love to be able to pay for a sparky to come in and do it but money tight at the moment and i love to learn new things ! thanks for your time and expertise

 

[echoes]

is it safe to chop the wires under the floorboards upstairs and use a terminal block to render them safe ? or do i need to trace them back to the junction box ?

No - a terminal block on its own is not safe. It would be better to remove the switch drop cable competely by disconnecting it from the JB (if that's where it is connected).

i now would like to remove the original (floating) switch and run the light of the 1 switch which is at that end of the room. the original switch has 2 sets of wires going to it and the new switch has 1 set. which is the best way of doing this ?

Are these 2 switches operating the other light (2 way switching)?, and is one of these cables 3-core & E? If so you would need to remove the 3-core between the 2 switches entirely and then re-route or replace the remaining cable going to the original switch to the other switch. Best to positively identify all the conductors first though and work out what's what.

is it a case of running a feed over to the new switch and then onto the downlighters daisy chain sytle and if so where is the best location to get a feed from ?

To avoid inaccessible JB's, feeding the switch like this is fine. Simple daisy-chaining the lamps is OK for 240V downlighters. If 12V and feeding more than 1 lamp per transformer, more consideration needed.

You can take your loop to the switch from the nearest convenient ceiling rose, junction box or looped-in switch.

 

[Georgi1303]

thanks for the swift reply

i will find the other end of the cable which runs to the switch and disconnect it from the jb. do i need to do the same for the cable which goes to the rose ?

you are correct 1 of the cables is 3core & e, and i thought that would be the case of having to reroute the cable. damn ! lol. can i use the cable that is already there and rewire that i 1 way ? all the cables are running into jb's under the floorboards upstairs and the CU is close by so all the cables are running along that area which is confusing in itself !

with the downlighter question will it be a case of 2core to the switch from a ceiling rose then wire the downlighters after that and does that need earthing at all ?

 

[echoes]

i will find the other end of the cable which runs to the switch and disconnect it from the jb. do i need to do the same for the cable which goes to the rose ?

If the rose is going, then remove the cable that supplies it.

you are correct 1 of the cables is 3core & e, and i thought that would be the case of having to reroute the cable. damn ! lol. can i use the cable that is already there and rewire that i 1 way ?

No, because the 3-core cable runs between the switches... (check this) unless you fancy replacing the switch with a blanking plate and joining the cables with a choc-strip...

all the cables are running into jb's under the floorboards upstairs and the CU is close by so all the cables are running along that area which is confusing in itself !

Good you've found the 'motorway' - masking tape and a felt-tip may help for a few temp labels... at least it's all in one place.

with the downlighter question will it be a case of 2core to the switch from a ceiling rose then wire the downlighters after that...

Yes - that would work. Connect the neutrals in the switch box with a piece of choc-block.

Are these 240V downlighters?

...and does that need earthing at all ?

Yes. Your lighting circuits do have an CPC conductor don't they? Connect these to your back box's earth terminal and to the earth terminal of each lamp fitting. Don't forget the yellow & green sleeving. And test everything before energising!

 

[Georgi1303]

thankyou very much for your advice echoes. its mostly gone well, i have just a couple of things that i have left to sort.

the downlighters are 12v (should have checked before buying ! lol) which are plug in with the transformer built into the plug (from ikea) http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/50119313
So what i have done is taken a feed from a lighting jb under the floor upstairs and run it under the floorboards to the location the downlights are going. i have then found a transformer that i had kicking around and connected that to the feed via a 5a inline connector. the 12v feed of the transformer then goes into a jb which feeds a switch, 2 spotlights (daisy chain style) and the other spotlight straight from the jb.
turned the electric back on and they all worked when switched on and off, but when they are switched off all 3 flick on and off intermittenly !
is it ok to run 3 spotlights of 1 transformer or should they have seperate ones for each spotlight ? or is the transformer faulty ? or have i done something fundamentally wrong ?
i have disconnected it all from the feed now so its safe overnight.

the other thing is about the ceiling rose and switch that i want to remove.
the switch has 1 set of wire (2core & e) and the ceiling rose has 2 sets of wire. i have located a wire under the floorboards in a jb which once disconnected has stopped the light coming on which i want to remove. is that safe to remove now. in my understanding the cable i removed from the jb would go to the ceiling rose and then from the ceiling rose to the switch. am i correct or is there another cable in the jb that needs removing ?

once again thanks for any help i receive. im slowly getting my head around how lighting works (i think lol) and really enjoying learning about it all.

 

[Chri5]

Look on the side of the transformer what does it say max output in watts is ?

Then add up the value of the lights, if 50w x 3 lamps you need a transformer that's better than 150w.

 

[Georgi1303]

its a place im doing up before moving in so im not there atm. thanks for that advice tho, ill check that tomorrow morning. would that cause the problem with the spotlights flicking on and off when switched off tho ?

 

[Georgi1303]

just popped back over to the house to pick up my mobile which i left there and had a look at the transformer.
its says 30 - 60 VA. its that the equivalent watt rating ? if so then the 3 lights total 30w so that should be ok.
im guessing the transformer is faulty as everything else thats been installed is new out the packet.

another thing from my original post is the 2 switches that run 1 light.
i tried to blank off the original switch by running the 2 sets of cables into terminal blocks and then putting a blanking plate on.
2 reds into one side of the block, 1 common into the middle and 2 blacks into the remaining side. when this was done the switch which is not being blanked of wouldn't work.
im guessing this is something i need to do with the common wire ?

thanks in advance

 

[echoes]

So what i have done is taken a feed from a lighting jb under the floor upstairs and run it under the floorboards to the location the downlights are going. i have then found a transformer that i had kicking around and connected that to the feed via a 5a inline connector. the 12v feed of the transformer then goes into a jb which feeds a switch, 2 spotlights (daisy chain style) and the other spotlight straight from the jb.

Have you wired the switch into the 12V coil of the transformer, and have the 240V side permanently live from the JB? The switch should be in the feed to the transformer.

...says 30 - 60 VA. its that the equivalent watt rating

Effectively yes - transformers are not rated in Watts since no power is dissipated in them (neglecting resistive losses, or switching losses in switch-mode devices and eddy current losses).

2 reds into one side of the block, 1 common into the middle and 2 blacks into the remaining side. when this was done the switch which is not being blanked of wouldn't work.

What colours are your 3-core cable? Hope the cpc is not being used as a strapper????

You need this:

[code:1]
BLANK PLATE SWITCH
CHOC-BLOCK
2-core 3-core

------LIVE (red)------------------o-o-----------------------------------------o L1

------SL (black, sleeved red)-----o-o-----------------------------------------o COM

o-o-----------------------------------------o L2

[/code:1]

 

[echoes]

Just had a look at those lights on ikea.com.

Where are these surface-mount only lamps installed? and how have you run the wiring to them?