Loft conversion plans

[curium]

Hello

I'm looking into get a loft conversion (hip to gable). I've never had substantial building work of this sort done before so I posted previously to get advice on the sequence of events.

I have now contacted a few architectural firms to get plans produced. A few of them are offering 'packages' which include:

• Site visit & survey
• Planning drawings including uploading plans
• Building control details
• Structural design

The first 2 seem self-explanatory. I wanted to ask what I should be expecting for the last 2?

I thought building control was dealt with by the builder that I appointed to do the conversion?

Structural design - does this include the calculations of loads and specification of timbers and steels?

I'd appreciate your wisdom to ensure that what I'm paying for will fulfil a required function.

Cheers

EDIT: I forgot to add that the roof needs replacing as part of this work. The roof is the original 1930s roof and is just tiles on battens on rafters, no felt. For obvious reasons I wish both jobs to be carried out at the same time. No idea how this affects things. I thought the roof would have to come off anyway for the conversion.

 

[tony1851]

You might not need 'planning' drawings if your loft isn't too large - they can usually be done under Permitted Development.
Building Regulations is the more important aspect. Don't necessarily go to an Architect - a good local technician knowledgeable on Building Regs can often be better value.
'Structural design' consists of calculations for specific steel or timber beams, usually done by a structural engineer rather than plan drawer/architect.

 

[JP_]

1, just a fancy way of saying we'll charge you a bit more - I mean, they can't plan it without seeing it.
2, how it looks and drawings to get planning permission - nothing structure in these , purely external aesthetic
3, I guess written details of compliance with building control, e.g. steels, types of padstones, written calculations for load bearing, fireproofing, fire alarms, type of windows, all that.
4, what it is built from, where the steels, structural supports go etc.

Get quotes, they can vary a lot.
There are some builders that market themselves as loft conversion specialists and will do the plans (usually outsource to somebody they work with) and manage building control - if you go the permitted development route can be better. This can work well as the builder will work with the designer and there'll be no suprises, and any hold ups also for them to deal with!

 

[curium]

1, just a fancy way of saying we'll charge you a bit more - I mean, they can't plan it without seeing it.
2, how it looks and drawings to get planning permission - nothing structure in these , purely external aesthetic
3, I guess written details of compliance with building control, e.g. steels, types of padstones, written calculations for load bearing, fireproofing, fire alarms, type of windows, all that.
4, what it is built from, where the steels, structural supports go etc.

Get quotes, they can vary a lot.
There are some builders that market themselves as loft conversion specialists and will do the plans (usually outsource to somebody they work with) and manage building control - if you go the permitted development route can be better. This can work well as the builder will work with the designer and there'll be no surprises, and any hold ups also for them to deal with!

I had intended to go down the specialists route but I need to get a price in advance to see if my savings will cover it or if/how much borrowing I would need.

The consensus seems to be that I can't get reliable quotes until I have drawings completed which is why I had intended to get drawings produced and then contact various builders to get quotes for them to build based on the plans.

Phoning around without plans has gotten me quotes ranging from £50k to £70k +VAT (SE London).

 

[tony1851]

"market themselves as loft conversion specialists and will do the plans"

'Design and Build' with 'free plans' is not usually a good way for loft conversions. For one thing, the customer gets what the builder wants to provide, not necessarily how the customer wants it. Only an independent 3rd party such as plan drawer/architect can sit down with the client and point things out.
And sign-writing 'Specialist' on a van does not mean anything.

 

[JP_]

Lots of demand at the moment that doesn't help. What is the loft like? Rectangle house, or L shaped? Tall apex (2.5m+) or low? That will all make a difference.
Sounds like might be best to get some quotes for plans. If you can design it yourself you can save some money, just ask for the technical plans and use them for planning and building control.

 

[tony1851]

@op; although the plans are a cost, once you have them (and assuming they are detailed and not just pretty pictures showing furniture and pot plants), anyone pricing the job knows what needs to be done, and they are all pricing off the same spec. You will get more realistic prices this way, and won't be lumbered with hidden extras (eg 'we priced for a ladder, we didn't know you wanted stairs, that'll be ...£££').

 

[JP_]

"market themselves as loft conversion specialists and will do the plans"

'Design and Build' with 'free plans' is not usually a good way for loft conversions. For one thing, the customer gets what the builder wants to provide, not necessarily how the customer wants it. Only an independent 3rd party such as plan drawer/architect can sit down with the client and point things out.
And sign-writing 'Specialist' on a van does not mean anything.

that's true, but sometimes there are not many options available for a loft - you're paying an architect to draw the only obvious sensible plan.

 

[curium]

that's true, but sometimes there are not many options available for a loft - you're paying an architect to draw the only obvious sensible plan.

This was my original thinking to be honest.

I'm after one bedroom and an ensuite shower-room (shower, sink, toilet, towel-radiator). Given the position of the existing staircase and soil-stack I doubt there's much room for imagination.

However I've decided to get plans drawn up in order to minimise wiggle room for the builder. Now I have the problem of comparing different architect offerings to ensure value for money.

 

[noseall]

• 
  
• Building control details

I thought building control was dealt with by the builder that I appointed to do the conversion?

What? In that the builder phones them up when he needs a visit? Lol.

Ensuring your build is Reg's compliant is the homeowner's responsibility. He can pass that responsibility onto an agent if needs be. However, all fees are paid by the client/homeowner. The architect or designer is responsible for providing Building Regulations compliant drawings - again paid for and commissioned by the client. The builder agrees to build to those drawings and must not arbitrarily deviate from them. Most builders take on the responsibility of ensuring BC visits, although this is not an automatic handover of responsibility.

 

[noseall]

I'd appreciate your wisdom to ensure that what I'm paying for will fulfil a required function.

Lofties are B'Regs fussy, idiosyncratic and rarely straightforward. I'd be more inclined to choose a designer and builder familiar with this type of project. There is also likely to be a rapport needed between SE, designer and builder as lofties always throw up headroom, steel, stair type questions.

I'm of the opinion that whack-on-a-massive-ugly-dormer type lofties are the most hideous abominations to ever scourge the (seen mainly in the S.E.) UK.
Needs must I guess.

 

[^woody^]

However I've decided to get plans drawn up in order to minimise wiggle room for the builder

What does that mean?

You must be very confident that the random unknown designer's plans are going to be 100% accurate and the stairs, beams, floor etc all fit in precisely!

 

[curium]

What does that mean?

You must be very confident that the random unknown designer's plans are going to be 100% accurate and the stairs, beams, floor etc all fit in precisely!

I completely understand and accept your point.

What I really mean is that I need a reasonably accurate quote to compare various builders and reading around I get the impression that a decent set of plans mean there's less chance that the builder has in mind something completely different from what I have in mind when quoting and they can also raise things that are not covered in the plans.

 

[curium]

What? In that the builder phones them up when he needs a visit? Lol.

Ensuring your build is Reg's compliant is the homeowner's responsibility. He can pass that responsibility onto an agent if needs be. However, all fees are paid by the client/homeowner. The architect or designer is responsible for providing Building Regulations compliant drawings - again paid for and commissioned by the client. The builder agrees to build to those drawings and must not arbitrarily deviate from them. Most builders take on the responsibility of ensuring BC visits, although this is not an automatic handover of responsibility.

This is good to know.

I had been led to believe that the builder dealt with building control and ensured that a certificate was obtained at the end of the build.