Looking to upgrade boiler

[aab203]

Hi there,

I recently completed the purchase of my new home and one of the things I want to do is to update the boiler to a new combi-boiler. However, as a complete novice to all of this I have no clue as to what boiler would suit me best.

The property is an end of terrace house, split over two floors. In total there are 9 radiators, a very small cloakroom (basin + wc) and the main bathroom.

We are looking to get a decent amount of pressure / flow rate so that the shower will be somewhat powerful and hopefully the effects of turning on multiple taps does not completely drain the pressure.

I don't know if there are basic things to consider, or if literally I can choose any combi boiler I like. One of the boilers that looks ok (to me) is this one: http://www.plumbtraders.co.uk/product/baxi-duo-tec-33he-combi-boiler-pack/. Is Baxi a good / reliable make? We are looking to spend around £800-900 on a boiler.

The questions that I would be very grateful if you could answer are:

1) What are the typical things to look for in a boiler (i.e. what sets one model apart from another)?
2) Does a flow rate of 13.5 have a good amount of pressure for a shower (located on the floor above the boiler)?
3) I am interested in getting a wireless thermostat - Are they worth it and can any wireless thermostat work with any combi boiler?
4) Does having a higher pressure system mean that my pipes (any joints) are more likely to wear down quicker and induce leaks?

I have been quoted £550 to intsall the new boiler (labour only). Does that seem like a reasonable amount?

Finally, how do boiler warranties work - Does a Gas Safe engineer need to sign off the installation?

Thank you in advance for any help you can give!

 

[Agile]

Hi there,

I have been quoted £550 to intsall the new boiler (labour only). Does that seem like a reasonable amount?

Finally, how do boiler warranties work - Does a Gas Safe engineer need to sign off the installation?

Thank you in advance for any help you can give!

That sounds rather cheap! We charge £840 for example. Are you sure that covers properly cleaning the system and a full guarantee against any ongoing problems from dirt?

The boiler installation has to be done by a Gas Safe engineer. No one should "sign off" anything he has not installed.

It sounds as if you have had a cheap quote from a non-registered person. Follow that route and you may end up with problems!

Tony

 

[aab203]

That sounds rather cheap! We charge £840 for example. Are you sure that covers properly cleaning the system and a full guarantee against any ongoing problems from dirt?

The boiler installation has to be done by a Gas Safe engineer. No one should "sign off" anything he has not installed.

It sounds as if you have had a cheap quote from a non-registered person. Follow that route and you may end up with problems!

Tony

Hi Tony,

Thank you for your reply. I am not sure what exactly that entails, but I am following up with the guy to see what his quote covers.

I definately will only have a Gas Safe engineer carry out the work (I have asked for his Gas Safe number).

Do you / your company work in London (Clapham area)? If so maybe you can give me a quote!

 

[Agile]

We primarily cover North and West London.

We do sometimes do installations in South and East London but this is a busy time of year and I would not want to do any more installations before Christmas to leave time for repairs and a little leisure!

We only charge the actual cost of the boiler plus an order/delivery charge of £10 so our charges are totally transparent. We dont load mark-ups on boiler prices which is why our installation charge looks a little higher than some other people. We will also fit ( new ) boilers supplied by the owner although in that case do not get involved with warrantee issues.

Any enquiries about us quoting should be made directly to the person using contact details in their profile or via normal directory listings.

Tony

EDIT:

I originally said we charge £840 for installing a combi. But that was for a combi to combi replacement.

To convert a traditional system to a combi we charge £1240 ! Thats over twice what your person has quoted.

That seems very low indeed and makes me wonder if he is an East European or third world installer who does not have to cover UK house prices?

 

[Statia]

Why spend all that money and replace a serviceable boiler with a combi?

You'll find that spec-ing a nice combi that will perform well and supply hot water quickly at high rates will cost you quite a bit. Spend less and get a crap unreliable one. Either way, it'll likely be dead within ten years, negating any efficiency cost savings. There are also other things to consider which could cost you like is the gas supply sufficient for the combi of choice? Is the mains water pressure sufficient?

Why don't you leave what's in and working where it is. If you have poor pressure in the hot water throught the house, get a pump for the whole house. If it's just the shower, get a pump just for the shower put in. Much cheaper.

All combi's really do is keep heating engineers in work anyway:

http://www.screwfix.com/talk/thread.jspa?forumID=25&threadID=108389&messageID=1254028#1254028

Change your boiler when the one you have now is no longer cost effective to repair or it simply stops working. Would you scrap a good running car and go and buy another one? Exactly.

If you're hellbent on spending cash, get TRV's put on all rads except room where 'stat is. Get a programmable thermostat (Honeywell), improve your insulation, get rid of draughts. You can also take off all rads and hose out in garden in the spring.

 

[doitall]

First, avoid Baxi, unless you have deep pockets.

Broag Avanta are the best by miles, ( now part of the baxi group, but untouched as yet.

You don't say what water usage you are likely to want, or whether the mains can deliver that figure.

Wireless stats I personally don't like, look at at things like the Drayton programmable stats, they give you complete control over the temperatures at any set point of the day.

The manufacturers give a 2-5year warranty, but it must be installed by an RGI and all the paperwork filled out and registered, or you're on your own as they say, and only the installer can do that legally.

£5-600 isn't that bad for a couple of days work, but definitely low, and doesn't leave anything for cleaning the system properly, and eventualities like upgrading the gas mains etc, so you would need to see exactly what is included, and what is chargeable. Some will suddenly find you need a load of extras at silly money.

The first thing you need to do is check the mains supply, pressure and flow,. The flow is easy, just time how long it take to fill a 5 Ltr bucket at peak and off-peak times, the RGI should have a gauge to measure the pressure.

You can contact Agile by clicking on his profile and sending him an email.

 

[aab203]

First, avoid Baxi, unless you have deep pockets.

Broag Avanta are the best by miles, ( now part of the baxi group, but untouched as yet.

You don't say what water usage you are likely to want, or whether the mains can deliver that figure.

Wireless stats I personally don't like, look at at things like the Drayton programmable stats, they give you complete control over the temperatures at any set point of the day.

The manufacturers give a 2-5year warranty, but it must be installed by an RGI and all the paperwork filled out and registered, or you're on your own as they say, and only the installer can do that legally.

£5-600 isn't that bad for a couple of days work, but definitely low, and doesn't leave anything for cleaning the system properly, and eventualities like upgrading the gas mains etc, so you would need to see exactly what is included, and what is chargeable. Some will suddenly find you need a load of extras at silly money.

The first thing you need to do is check the mains supply, pressure and flow,. The flow is easy, just time how long it take to fill a 5 Ltr bucket at peak and off-peak times, the RGI should have a gauge to measure the pressure.

You can contact Agile by clicking on his profile and sending him an email.

Thanks for your response.

Are Baxi reputable, albeit expensive? How about Potterton - they seem to be more reasonable.

We are not high consumers of water, but personally I like a 'powerful' shower. Our water pressure, so I was told, was pretty goold (this was from a British Gas guy who came round for a quote, which turned out to be like £4.5k!!!!) so hopefully in that respect things should be ok.

Thanks for the note about the stats - I have heard the brand Drayton being mentioned a couple of times. How does one install a standard stat then, can I just replace the existing one (ie using the same wiring leading back to the boiler - if thats how they are connected)?

I it sounding like the quote is on the cheap side - I will clarify what work he will carry out.

Thanks again.

 

[doitall]

Potterton are worse than Baxi, (same outfit now)

The only combi I would consider in a small domestic is the Broag Avanta or the Atmos, although the Atmos is outside your price range.

BG are the opposite end of the scale so if you knock a £1000-1500 of their price you will be close to reality.

You can use the same wiring as existing. Honeywell are also good, so you have a choice.

You cannot have a powershower with a combi, (pumps not allowed) which is why you need to know the pressure and flow rate available, and not what the boiler can deliver.

 

[D_Hailsham]

Broag Avanta are the best by miles, ( now part of the baxi group, but untouched as yet.

Tut Tut! It's the other way round; Baxi Group will be part of the Remeha-De Deitrich Group. As the press release says:

"Remeha Group B.V. will hold a majority of the equity in the new combination"

 

[mickyg]

Either way, it'll likely be dead within ten years....................................................................................................
All combi's really do is keep heating engineers in work anyway

I agree with most of what you said. As others will have noticed I am often one to encourage consumers to keep good working reliable boilers.
However these 2 comments are completely misguided. If you'd care to explain why you think that way, I'll will happily tell you why your wrong.

btw the OP didn't say what boiler/system they currently have so I would be careful advising keeping it until more well informed.

 

[aab203]

Why spend all that money and replace a serviceable boiler with a combi?

You'll find that spec-ing a nice combi that will perform well and supply hot water quickly at high rates will cost you quite a bit. Spend less and get a crap unreliable one. Either way, it'll likely be dead within ten years, negating any efficiency cost savings. There are also other things to consider which could cost you like is the gas supply sufficient for the combi of choice? Is the mains water pressure sufficient?

Why don't you leave what's in and working where it is. If you have poor pressure in the hot water throught the house, get a pump for the whole house. If it's just the shower, get a pump just for the shower put in. Much cheaper.

All combi's really do is keep heating engineers in work anyway:

http://www.screwfix.com/talk/thread.jspa?forumID=25&threadID=108389&messageID=1254028#1254028

Change your boiler when the one you have now is no longer cost effective to repair or it simply stops working. Would you scrap a good running car and go and buy another one? Exactly.

If you're hellbent on spending cash, get TRV's put on all rads except room where 'stat is. Get a programmable thermostat (Honeywell), improve your insulation, get rid of draughts. You can also take off all rads and hose out in garden in the spring.

Hi Statia,

Apologies, I did not see your message yesterday! Thanks for your input.

Currently the boiler seems to be ok (I haven't completely moved into the property yet), but it is very old and even the surveyor recommended that it should be replaced. The main reason I would like to get a combi is mainly I believe they are more energy efficient and I like the fact of having 'instant' hot water and not having to remember to set the boiler an hour before I would like to have a shower. I have used both types of central heating systems and personally I always got fed up of the hot water running out if someone else was in the shower too long - I don't get that with a combi.

Our current boiler is an Ideal Elan 2 NF. It is pretty old and unfortunately I cannot get my hands on a user guide for it lol. I have been told that parts for the boiler are now hard to come by. The house is quite small, so to gain extra space from removing the hot water cylinder would be quite a bonus for us (and perhaps help in selling the house in the future).

I don't plan on being there for 10 years lol (but you never know), and I would have it serviced each year.

Regarding the gas / water supply, I currently have a 15m gas pipe and was told I would need to upgrade to a 22mm on. For the water, again I have a good water pressure (not sure of the actual figure).

What is it about combis that you don't like?

 

[doitall]

Any boiler is more energy efficient than what you have, if you want the manual emails in my profile, if you remove the white space.

Combi boilers are fine in the right place, but they are notoriously un-reliable, which is why you need to check them out, and not just go on what your RGI offers you, as above, there's nothing to touch the Avanta in the price range.

Depending on the length of run 22mm could be undersized, 28mm, and even 35mm may have to be used for longer runs, your RGI should be able to size it properly once you decide on location etc.