Mains supply to alarms

[JohnW2]

No, one for all, or rather - one RCBO/MCB supplying that circuit, separately from all other circuits for convenience of maintenance.

See my comments. If you use alarms which can be 'unplugged' from their bases (which is what we've been talking about) then the only 'maintenance' that would ever require 'isolation' would be the fixed wiring to the bases - and that's probably unlikely to become necessary 'in a lifetime'

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

See my comments. If you use alarms which can be 'unplugged' from their bases (which is what we've been talking about) then the only 'maintenance' that would ever require 'isolation' would be the fixed wiring to the bases - and that's probably unlikely to become necessary 'in a lifetime'

On the other hand, if you make use of an existing circuit, such as your lighting circuit, and you were to have need to work on that - then perhaps you might then welcome your fire alarm system, having it's own, separate circuit.

 

[JohnW2]

On the other hand, if you make use of an existing circuit, such as your lighting circuit, and you were to have need to work on that - then perhaps you might then welcome your fire alarm system, having it's own, separate circuit.

Why?

 

[AndyPRK]

Batteries would cover that period

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Batteries would cover that period

Accompanied by a regular, very annoying bleeping, until you restore the power to the circuit.

 

[Deleted member 142255]

Why?

Because given your perpetual questions and admission that you are not trained, should you be installing these, or anything for that matter?

I am guessing if you are refurbing a house it is either to rent out or to live in yourself. How will you provide evidence to a coroners court of competence if it all goes pear shaped and somebody gets killed through your actions? Do you carry all the relevant insurances?

 

[AndyPRK]

Accompanied by a regular, very annoying bleeping, until you restore the power to the circuit.

Mine don’t. But an interesting point.

 

[JohnW2]

Batteries would cover that period

Indeed - and even if they didn't, I wouldn't worry about the alarms not working during the time I was 'working on the lighting circuit', not the least because if I were 'working on the lighting circuit' I would probably notice if the house had burst into flames whilst I was working

I think that Harry is probably one of those people who simply believes in 'isolators for everything', which is fair enough, but that he is now coming up with attempts to justify that viewpoint with arguments that he probably hasn't really thought through quite enough!

 

[JohnW2]

Because given your perpetual questions and admission that you are not trained, should you be installing these, or anything for that matter?

What on earth has any of that got to do with the question I asked Harry?

I am guessing if you are refurbing a house it is either to rent out or to live in yourself.

You are welcome to guess whatever you wish. Guessing is just another word for 'assuming'.

How will you provide evidence to a coroners court of competence if it all goes pear shaped and somebody gets killed through your actions? Do you carry all the relevant insurances?

Good grief! I understand that you 'have it in for me', but what part of installing the most respected brand of alarms do you think could result in people being killed? Even if the wiring were installed so badly that the alarms didn't get any mains power and the back-up batteries were getting low, the alarms would start bleeping to alert the occupants to the fact that attention was required.

... and, to show that I am generous, to provide you with some more fuel for your vendetta, I can assure you that I am doing far more to the house than just installing some alarms!

 

[JohnW2]

Mine don’t. But an interesting point.

Indeed - as you say, interesting. From what I've read in this thread, it seems that there probably is variation between alarms (maybe between brands of alarms?) as to whether or not they will keep beeping when mains if lost if they are still being satisfactorily powered by their back-up batteries. As I've said, I'll 'do the experiment' (with Aico ones) as soon as I can.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I think that Harry is probably one of those people who simply believes in 'isolators for everything', which is fair enough, but that he is now coming up with attempts to justify that viewpoint with arguments that he probably hasn't really thought through quite enough!

Not at all, but I do believe in, making my future life easy for myself, when it is so cheap and easy at the planning stage.

 

[Deleted member 142255]

What on earth has any of that got to do with the question I asked Harry?

Lack of experience, training and competence.

Good grief! I understand that you 'have it in for me', but what part of installing the most respected brand of alarms do you think could result in people being killed? Even if the wiring were installed so badly that the alarms didn't get any mains power and the back-up batteries were getting low, the alarms would start bleeping to alert the occupants to the fact that attention was required.

I don't have it in for you at all. Your questions make me doubt your competence to install anything, and as a retire pro it is my duty to query that before giving advice that may leas to danger.

Badly installed wiring can very easily lead to fires.

... and, to show that I am generous, to provide you with some more fuel for your vendetta, I can assure you that I am doing far more to the house than just installing some alarms!

Which I find very scary.

 

[Deleted member 142255]

Good grief! I understand that you 'have it in for me', but what part of installing the most respected brand of alarms do you think could result in people being killed? Even if the wiring were installed so badly that the alarms didn't get any mains power and the back-up batteries were getting low, the alarms would start bleeping to alert the occupants to the fact that attention was required.

I see you have a question count of nearly 58k. I have no intention of trying to read them all, but obviously you are not used to having your competence challenged, well sorry, but it's my duty when you obviously don't have a scooby.

Will you be installing to the appropriate British Standards for fire detection systems?

 

[JohnW2]

Lack of experience, training and competence.

Oh dear. It is true that I have no formal training in the field, but you know nothing of my experience or competence and, as you go on to admit in a subsequent post, you have limited familiarity with what I have been writing here for the past 14 years, and hence are less able than others to draw conclusions about my 'competence'. I suspect that not everyone here would agree with your views about my competence.

In any event, I still don't understand why you responded to my asking Harry why he was advocating a separate means of isolation for an alarm circuit when everyone else in this thread (including yourself, fairly strongly) has spoken out against it. It seems as if you have just picked a post of mine at random to reply to you with comments about me.

This is no place for modesty on my part. I obviously have limited hands-on experience, but I am pretty confident that I have at least as good a knowledge and understanding of the relevant regulations and, more importantly, the underlying electric principles as to many/most practising electricians (and more knowledge/understanding than a fair few of them).

I don't have it in for you at all.

You could have fooled me.

Your questions make me doubt your competence to install anything, ...

I'd be interested to hear which questions give rise to such doubts. I have to say that I'm sufficiently confident about my knowledge and competence that I would be happy to get on and do everything without asking any questions (and that would avoid some of the 'flak' I sometimes have to contend with) - but it provides an additional layer of confidence about safety if I ask questions to seek views about what I'm doing (in some cases from 'pros', although most of the regular contributors to this forum are not electricians).

Badly installed wiring can very easily lead to fires.

It can indeed, but I don't install wiring 'badly'

 

[JohnW2]

I see you have a question count of nearly 58k. I have no intention of trying to read them all, but obviously you are not used to having your competence challenged, well sorry,

You are by no means the first, and won't be the last.

However, if you have specific reasons for challenging my competence, please let me know , so that I can respond (and learn if necessary), rather than just throwing out unsubstantiated vague challenged of my competence.

I do, indeed, do a lot of writing - and when I do write, brevity is not one of my virtues - but that is just 'how I am' and none of that has any bearing on my competence (to do anything) or otherwise. To suggest that I have a 'question count' of nearly 5k is a complete joke. Only a tiny tiny proportion of my 'nearly 50k' posts have been questions from me. The vast majority of my posts have been responses to other people's questions, technical or regulatory discussions (amongst people who understand the technicalities and regulations) or, in some cases, dealing with people like you.

but it's my duty when you obviously don't have a scooby.

You are getting close to 'crossing a line'

Will you be installing to the appropriate British Standards for fire detection systems?

Yes.
However, I would suspect that a high proportion of those who install smoke/heat alarms (many of whom are just 'householders'), including electricians, do not even know what British Standards are relevant - and of those who do know, I strongly suspect that very few will actually have studied them.