metal lamp fittings with no earth terminals?

[sadexpunk]

hi

been sorting out my external electrics, got the socket sorted with 2.5 FTE, and also 1.5mm FTE for lighting to a waterproof switch and then onto 2 external lights at each end of a gazebo.

the lamps i ordered are stainless steel but now ive opened them up there doesnt seem to be an earth terminal in them, which id expect in metal casings.

a quick google suggests i can just terminate the earth in choc blocks, but i thought id check here first.

my guess is that my cable will go to the switch from consumer unit (6A breaker), and be connected there (live, neutral and earth). the cable to first lamp will connect up (live, neutral and earth) in the switch too and leave for the lamp where the live and neutral will be connected to respective terminals, and earth into a choc block.
then another cable will also use those 3 terminals (so choc block will have 2 earths connected, in and out) to go to lamp 2, where live and neutral also connect up, and earth just finishes in one side of a choc block, end of.

that sound right? and if so, can you explain why the metal casings dont need an earth, as i know metal light switches do.

thanks

 

[winston1]

First you don't need 1.5mm twin and earth for lights. 1.0mm is adequate, cheaper, and easier to use.

Your metal lamps are, hopefully, double insulated and don't need an earth. Look for a double insulated sign, two squares inside each other.
The other possibility is that you got cheap lights from overseas via the internet and they don't conform to the required specifications.

Your wiring sounds OK for double insulated lights.

 

[sadexpunk]

thanks, its these. cant see any mention of double insulation tho....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B010I40TP8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

this is the info on the box.....

 

[ban-all-sheds]

cant see any mention of double insulation tho....

I can see the opposite:

It is not double insulated - it is Class I, and it MUST be earthed.

If you are sure that there is no earth terminal, and the lights themselves have no Class I/DI marking, then do not use them, do not try to improvise your own earth connection, return them for a refund, including postage costs each way (I see someone gave a bad review re this - legally the seller MUST refund all your postage costs).

And re legality - he is breaking the law by selling these items, and if he's the importer then he's breaking the law there as well - you ought to contact Trading Standards.

 

[sadexpunk]

good job i asked then altho its a shame as theyre lovely looking lights, cant find any that we like as much. just to make sure im not being an idiot heres a couple of pics, one showing the fitting and one the limited paperwork included. the paperwork shows just 2 wires in the cable, no earth.

i couldnt see the review that mentioned no earth, but no worries, you could and you obviously know your stuff anyway. one thing that baffles me a little, if this product needs an earth, then why does the paperwork show just live and neutral, and why is everybody else using them and are happy with them? have they all got dangerous lights up?

thanks for your help tho, maybe saved me a zap

 

[bernardgreen]

My opinion is that as there is no exposed metal parts then the lamps would be safe without an earth.

That said if I had to fit them I would connect an earth to the metal bracket holding the lamp holder and I would sleeve the wires to the lamps holder with heat resistant insulation as with a 60 watt lamp that holder is going to get hot.

That is my opinion and not a suggestion to the OP

 

[ban-all-sheds]

the paperwork shows just 2 wires in the cable, no earth.

That's also wrong - even if the item is double insulated you are still required to have a functioning earth in the cable itself.

i couldnt see the review that mentioned no earth

There wasn't (not that I saw) - I was talking about the one complaining about being made to pay return postage for a faulty item (another trading offence).

one thing that baffles me a little, if this product needs an earth, then why does the paperwork show just live and neutral,

Because the maker neither knows nor cares about what is needed?

and why is everybody else using them and are happy with them?

Maybe they don't know, didn't think about it...

have they all got dangerous lights up?

Possibly.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

My opinion is that as there is no exposed metal parts then the lamps would be safe without an earth.

Of course - how could I have been so dim?

I mean - what on earth possessed me to think that a light called a "Stainless Steel Wall Light Pillar Light", and described as being "Made from Stainless Steel", and having a shiny, metallic, stainless-steely appearance could possibly have exposed metal parts?

I do apologise for wasting everyone's time, and may I just say, Bernard, how much we all appreciate your valuable insight.

 

[bernardgreen]

I accept the critique from BAS,

but then looking at the construction the metal bracket ( which might become live only if insulation on a conductor melted ) is more than 10 mm from any of the threaded bosses for the screws that retain the cover. So technically it could be said to be double insulated

I should have written "" My opinion is that as there is no exposed metal parts that are closer than 10 mm to Live conductors then the lamps would be safe without an earth. ""

 

[sadexpunk]

ive spoken to the distributors (longlifelamps) who didnt fill me with much confidence. i mentioned electricians were telling me it was unsafe but they seemed to be of the opinion that as there were no touching metal parts it was safe. i also mentioned that it showed an earth on the packaging and didnt have one, so was not as advertised and that if a wire became loose then itd kill someone. "well weve been selling these years and havent had any complaints" he took my details and said he'd get back to me after finding out more details.

also spoken to a trusted electrician friend who said he wouldnt fit them in his house. ill be sending them back and am also considering reporting them.

thanks a lot