metal or plastic conduit

[Lectrician]

I would use a RCD protection because it is safer in my opinion, that is why said it. You are right cables clipped or in wall mounted conduit will not need RCD.

b-a-s yep you got me this time (missed the wood), but you never know I have seen all kind of people some of them might surprise even you.

I hate folk using RCDs where they are not necessary.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Where is the accident data which shows that RCDs on any non-mechanically protected cables buried in a wall at less than 50mm are necessary?

 

[Albert]

Being honest, without getting it very complicated, done my qualifications plus 2391 + 16th and 17th editions, it was always clear that new circuits wherever they are and new CU are notifiable. This issue of what is/not notifiable was always "hot" and we found at the time the references needed. I do not think that I have to prove every time again the validity of something that was already verified.

I could put it in a different way, a new circuit and/or CU, they need to be tested and inspected, a certificate has to be issued to the customer, I believe that the certificate will be EIC because, PIR is for existing installation and minor will not cover this type of work (although minor work can be/not notifiable), so I notify every EIC because the nature of the work that will require this type of certificate.

According to NAPIT; When upgrading a CU if there are no new circuits the existing installation will require a PIR but the CU itself an EIC.

 

[Albert]

Where is the accident data which shows that RCDs on any non-mechanically protected cables buried in a wall at less than 50mm are necessary?

If I correctly understand your question; see OSG - 2008, page 60, or if you wish 7671-2008 page 100, 5226.6 and 522.6.7. I hate to quote regs, but sometimes a man has to do what a man has to do...

Just another source: Electricians Guide to the building regulations 17th edition page 32 (see the note in the bottom).

 

[davelx]

I think it would be helpful if when making statements like "you will need" and "you must", etc. posters indicate if this is (a) just their opinion (b) industry best practice or (c) required by the wiring (or other) regulations - in which case state which regulations.

Firstly I do not see the benefit of quoting regulations and numbers, this does not help if some one needs simple advice.
Secondly if you read my post, i explained when it would be applicable. This is not one to one, this is a forum where people give advice which not always the same but it does not mean that it is wrong.

I suggest you re-read your own post - what you actually typed, not what you meant or were thinking.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If I correctly understand your question; see OSG - 2008, page 60, or if you wish 7671-2008 page 100, 5226.6 and 522.6.7. I hate to quote regs, but sometimes a man has to do what a man has to do...

Just another source: Electricians Guide to the building regulations 17th edition page 32 (see the note in the bottom).

I know full well that the regulations say you must have them.

My response was to Lectrician's "I hate folk using RCDs where they are not necessary". An arbitrary and unjustified regulation doesn't make something necessary.

 

[Albert]

I think it would be helpful if when making statements like "you will need" and "you must", etc. posters indicate if this is (a) just their opinion (b) industry best practice or (c) required by the wiring (or other) regulations - in which case state which regulations.

I did not write the above, I replied to it...

 

[Albert]

I know full well that the regulations say you must have them.

My response was to Lectrician's "I hate folk using RCDs where they are not necessary". An arbitrary and unjustified regulation doesn't make something necessary.

So we pick and choose? Unfortunately if this is the case each one of us would find something else unjustified, so who is right? those who don't like RCDs or those Who don't like to install fire and sound rated down lights...

The financial temptation is huge RCD/RCBO against CB, testing and certifying the installation takes time and can be quite hard work, someone can say, I know that it is ok, I did it! so testing is not necessary for him?

I see the regs as the minimum required, and try to do better if I can, you do not have to agree with me but the only way we all will keep to the same standard is that we all follow the regs.

I am sure that the big majority of the people in the forum follow the rules
and comply with the regs, I believe that it is just expressing an opinion.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So we pick and choose?

I didn't say that.

Lectrician said he hated seeing RCDs used where they weren't necessary. I pointed out that there is no justification for the regulations requiring them, i.e. the regulations require something unnecessary.

Unfortunately if this is the case each one of us would find something else unjustified, so who is right?

Irrelevant.

those who don't like RCDs or those Who don't like to install fire and sound rated down lights...

Fire rated downlights are often unnecessary.

The financial temptation is huge RCD/RCBO against CB, testing and certifying the installation takes time and can be quite hard work, someone can say, I know that it is ok, I did it! so testing is not necessary for him?

I didn't say that.

I see the regs as the minimum required, and try to do better if I can, you do not have to agree with me but the only way we all will keep to the same standard is that we all follow the regs.

I'm not suggesting that the regulations not be followed.

Lectrician said he hated seeing RCDs used where they weren't necessary. I pointed out that there is no justification for the regulations requiring them, i.e. the regulations require something unnecessary.

I am sure that the big majority of the people in the forum follow the rules
and comply with the regs, I believe that it is just expressing an opinion.

I'm sure they do.

 

[Albert]

I hope that you understand that this is not a personal attack, I am just trying to make a point.
I think that we can agree not to agree, I think that the point you said that is not relevant, it is relevant. may be you do not see this as pick and choose but I do etc...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So we pick and choose?

I didn't say that.

And it's because I didn't say that that your question "Unfortunately if this is the case each one of us would find something else unjustified, so who is right?" is irrelevant......