i am currently working on a project in what is effectively a very large wooden shed, i have been asked to connect into the existing supply with swa to supply a new CU. all other cable is building was clipped direct but this is now redundant and can be disguarded. going in is a lighting circuit throughout and a power circuit to a small area. i started by running metal trunking the lenght of the shed, then running drops of metal galv conduit to fix click roses for lights and seperate drops in metal galv conduit for the power. i have been told this is wrong and should of used plastic conduit is this correct? thanks
metal or plastic conduit
- Thread starter diyer83
- Start date
Sponsored Links
They are not notifiable.
Note f to Table 1 in Approved Document P says:
f. Detached garages and sheds are not special locations. Work within them is notifiable only if it involves new outdoor wiring.
.
- Joined
- 1 Jan 2009
- Messages
- 254
- Reaction score
- 2
- Country
if the drops could be subject to impact i would probably use galv conduit for the drops. Plastic is easier to work with and fine if there is no risk of heavy impact to the drops.
Sponsored Links
Stoday - you need to pay more attention...
I make that a new CU and two new circuits. Exactly how is that not notifiable? And the SWA probably means outside cabling....
diyer - please get a new keyboard, the shift keys on yours are broken.
Even with the best of intentions it's tricky to chase the walls of a wooden shed.... 
Albert - As I understand it (will double check the regs tonight), you only need RCD protection if it's buried in a wall at less than 50mm, if it's in conduit on a surface (or even clipped direct) then there is no specific requirement (since you'd have to be very stupid to try and drill/nail into it etc!).
Obviously the socket oulets will require RCD protection under other regulations, but with the set up as described I don't see any requirement for RCD protection on the lighting circuits, regardless of whether plastic or metal conduit is used.
Obviously the socket oulets will require RCD protection under other regulations, but with the set up as described I don't see any requirement for RCD protection on the lighting circuits, regardless of whether plastic or metal conduit is used.
I would use a RCD protection because it is safer in my opinion, that is why said it. You are right cables clipped or in wall mounted conduit will not need RCD.
b-a-s yep you got me this time (missed the wood), but you never know I have seen all kind of people some of them might surprise even you.
b-a-s yep you got me this time (missed the wood), but you never know I have seen all kind of people some of them might surprise even you.
I think it would be helpful if when making statements like "you will need" and "you must", etc. posters indicate if this is (a) just their opinion (b) industry best practice or (c) required by the wiring (or other) regulations - in which case state which regulations.
Told by whom?
BAS — With due respect (if any be due
) it's you who needs to pay more attention.I have quoted from the Approved Document. This is the government's advice on the interpretation of part P, not mine. Note (f) says "Work within them is notifiable only if it involves new outdoor wiring. Work in this case includes the provision of a cu and two circuits. Now I know that this appears to conflict with note (c) but that note applies to a replacement cu, not to the new one proposed. There is, of course, a vast difference between a small cu in a shed and a cu in a dwelling, so the apparant anomaly could be intentional. As for note (a), that is indeed in direct conflict with note (f). Which should prevail? Whichever you prefer. You won't get into trouble if you've followed authoritative advice.
There is nothing to indicate that the swa is going outside the shed. All diyer83 says is that he intends to connect a new cu to the existing supply with swa. The existing supply may well terminate in the shed. If he were running the supply from outside I would expect him to say he was taking it from the house's cu, not from an existing supply. That implies it's already in the shed.
The approved document is not the law, the law is Part P of the building regulations (which can be found within http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BC_Consolidated_Bldg_Regs.pdf).
These do not state that any work in garages and sheds is not notifiable. In the approved document, note f to table 1 is against the entries about work not in a special location, and is intended to clarify that a detatched garage and shed is not a special location. I admit it is badly worded (as are a number of things in the approved document), but if you read the authoritative source (the building regulations), it is quite clear that new circuits are notifiable...
These do not state that any work in garages and sheds is not notifiable. In the approved document, note f to table 1 is against the entries about work not in a special location, and is intended to clarify that a detatched garage and shed is not a special location. I admit it is badly worded (as are a number of things in the approved document), but if you read the authoritative source (the building regulations), it is quite clear that new circuits are notifiable...
No it's not - it's your highly selective and frankly quite bizarre reading of AD P.BAS — With due respect (if any be due
I have quoted from the Approved Document. This is the government's advice on the interpretation of part P, not mine.
Try p7:
Notification of work
When necessary to involve building
control bodies
0.6 Except in the circumstances outlined in
paragraph 0.7 below, notification of proposals to
carry out electrical installation work must be given
to a building control body (the local authority or
an approved inspector) before work begins.
When not necessary to involve building
control bodies
0.7 It is not necessary to give prior notification
of proposals to carry out electrical installation
work to building control bodies in the following
circumstances:
a. The proposed installation work is undertaken
by a person registered with an electrical self certification
scheme prescribed in regulations
(see schedule 2A of the Regulations). In these
cases the person is responsible for ensuring
compliance with BS 7671:2001 or an
equivalent standard and all relevant building
regulations requirements. A full list of schemes
with contact details is given in Appendix E.
OR
b. The proposed electrical installation work is
non-notifiable work of the type described in
Table 1 and does not include the provision of
a new circuit (see schedule 2B of the
Regulations).
There is absolutely no doubt that AD P is telling you to refer to Schedules 2A and 2B of the Building Regulations to determine if work is notifiable in advance.
Shall we now look at Table 1 on p8? As we go through it, let's ask ourselves if the work proposed by diyer83 matches the description of work which is not notifiable....
Replacing any fixed electrical equipment (for example, socket-outlets, control switches and ceiling roses) which does not include the
provision of any new fixed cabling. [Nope.]
Replacing the cable for a single circuit only, where damaged, for example, by fire, rodent or impact (a) [Nope.]
Re-fixing or replacing the enclosures of existing installation components (b) [Nope.]
Providing mechanical protection to existing fixed installations (c) [Nope.]
Installing or upgrading main or supplementary equipotential bonding (d) [Nope.]
Work that is not in a kitchen or special location and does not involve a special installation (e) and consists of:
Adding lighting points (light fittings and switches) to an existing circuit (f) [Nope.]
Adding socket-outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit (f) [Nope.]
Work not in a special location, on:
Telephone or extra-low voltage wiring and equipment for the purposes of communications, information technology, signalling, control
and similar purposes [Nope.]
Prefabricated equipment sets and associated flexible leads with integral plug and socket connections [Nope.]
Oh dear - we've reached the end of Table 1, and not found any match which would make the installation of the CU and the new circuits non-notifiable.
That means they are notifiable, and AD P is absolutely clear on that.
And, obviously (to everyone except you, it seems) if it's already notifiable for other reasons.
Yup. Can you find where in either Table 1 or Schedule 2B the provision of a CU and two circuits is defined as non-notifiable?
That's the way it works - absolutely everything is notifiable unless it is explicitly on the list of non-notifiable work.
It's not in conflict with Note (c) at all, because it is nothing to do with the situation which Note (c) is clarifying, which is Note (b), i.e.
Replacement, repair and maintenance jobs
are generally not notifiable, even if carried out
in a kitchen or special location or associated
with a special installation.
And in any event - saying that "Consumer unit replacements are, however, notifiable" does not imply that new consumer units are not. Those clearly are notifiable because they are not on the list of non-notifiable work.
There is no anomaly, intentional or otherwise.
No it isn't.
The law, as referenced on p7.
The list of non-notifiable work as referenced on p7.
The list of non-notifiable work given in Table 1 on p8.
You will if you have willfully or incompetently misread the authoritative advice.
Indeed not, which is why I said the SWA probably means outside cabling. And be honest - it does, doesn't it....
Not from the existing supply as in supply to the house?
But even if you are right you won't find the installation of a length of SWA to feed a new CU in the list of non-notifiable work....
If there were to be a poll I don't think you'd find many people agreeing with your inference.
DIYnot Local
Staff member
If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.
Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.
Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local
Sponsored Links
