Mixture of solid & veneered wood

[Dave54]

Hi Dave54,
Thanks for your reply. However, the last time I did a dovetail joint was 22 years ago at school woodwork, lol. As for 'decorative' dovetail joints, that would be on another planet when it comes to my expertise. To be honest, I was thinking of locking cam bolts, as an amateur, as long as it fits tight enough.
Kind regards,
Datadiyer

If you can cut equal dovetails, then you can cut decorative ones. It's only the sizing of the tails / pins that is different really.
As Harbourwoodwork says they look classy. Really lift any piece out of the "ordinary"
If I was buying oak to make those cabinets, and looking at the prices you must be over £1000 there for English oak panels, then personally I'd want something that was a bit more solid than locking cam bolts. Biscuit joints would be a better option IMO. Most joinery places would do that for you.
Personally if I were you I'd do a set of drawings for this and decide exact sizes and exactly how it was all going together. Make a cutting list too. Mistakes on paper are cheaper than those in oak!

 

[Harbourwoodwork]

Go for the dovetail's Data ,If youv'e done it before your'e halfway there.I cant see the point otherwise,you might as well buy a billy bong bong from Ikea and just think how long it took that wood to grow

 

[Dave54]

Go for the dovetail's Data ,If youv'e done it before your'e halfway there.I cant see the point otherwise,you might as well buy a billy bong bong from Ikea and just think how long it took that wood to grow

That's just what I think mate. If he does a proper job he'll have something that'll look great and last a lifetime (and probably several more after that!)

 

[datadiyer]

Excuse my Naievity, but are you talking doveyail joints for the drawers in the pic, as i've decided to leave the drawers out and just some shaker or mitred doors.

Cheers,
Data.

 

[Harbourwoodwork]

No, on your design, the cabinet corners look to have dovetails or box joints,that got us a bit exited

 

[datadiyer]

Right, gotcha,

I will have a bash at dovetailing (even the decorative type) as you mention, if i'm stuck, I could always give the cuts to a proper chippy to do for me, although not many would be interested in a small job i'm guessing, hopefully I can do it myself though, you've inspired me into attempting decorative dovetailing, whether that's a good thing for me, I shall let you know, lol. I'll even upload the final pics if i'm successful, and I promise to indicate whether I made the joints myself or someone more competent.
cheers,
Data.

 

[datadiyer]

Hi Guys,

Had a major concern from a member of another forum i've been using, about the shrinkage of the solid wood option. He's told me the solid wood could shrink 10% and also split once the central heating has been on for a while! Does anyone have any views on this. He's advised that veneer is the way to go without a doubt.
Cheers,
Data.

 

[Dave54]

Yes it looks like dovetails on the drawing. Nothing like making the job harder for someone! I was always good at that.
As long as you have sharp tools, understand how to make the joints so that they fit properly and work carefully you'll be fine. There look to be plenty of tutorials online. Try some on some scrap first to get up to speed.

 

[Harbourwoodwork]

Hi Guys,

Had a major concern from a member of another forum i've been using, about the shrinkage of the solid wood option. He's told me the solid wood could shrink 10% and also split once the central heating has been on for a while! Does anyone have any views on this. He's advised that veneer is the way to go without a doubt.
Cheers,
Data.

It all depends on the timber conversion is it cut tangential or radial

 

[Dave54]

As Harbourwoodwork says it depends on how it's been converted. I'd assume it was a reasonable cut for panels like this, and might explain why a lot of the European oak you see seems to have all the best cut boards removed! Depends to some extent as well on how it's been dried and stored. If it's been kilned (which it probably has) and stored properly I doubt if it'll move anything like 10%. ALL solid timber moves to some extent though as temperature and humidity change. You need to design with that in mind, and either keep the grain running the same way as it would be in the carcases here, or by allowing movement of panels in frames.
Veneered work brings it's own set of problems. The best work has solid lipped edges, and that needs a lot of careful work. Veneered edges get chipped and look bad after some use.
Personally I'd go for solid wood. I've done a fair amount of work with lipped veneered board in the past but it never gave me the same satisfaction somehow, and always looks "manufactured" to me.

 

[datadiyer]

Hi Harbourwoodwork/Dave54

Could you look at the following link where I intend getting the timber from:

http://www.smi-hardwoods.com/european-oak-panels.asp

I'm guessing that these are cut Radial, so if I run all the units with the grain going the same way, does that mean I won't have a problem with shrinking/splitting?

Thanks,
Data.

 

[Harbourwoodwork]

Hi Data I think you'll be lucky if there radial cut ,its more likely to be tangetially cut, but if the strips are not too wide say no more than 4" and the growth ring are reversed every board you'll be ok, Im not trying to make you paranoid just setting a bottom line to work from, As far as shrinkage goes ,your aiming to have the same moisture content when the piece is finished as the moisture content of the environment its going to live in.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Radial, tangential? Don't folk use the terms like "quarter sawn" (radial grain) any longer? Sorry, OP, but most timber is converted through and through (what the Yanks call flat sawn) giving 2 or 4 almost quarter sawn boards for every log converted (depending if the board is centre ripped or not) and no more:

Q/S is generally chosen where the ray fleck is important in the design:

but whilst it is much more stable it is also much more expensive. The reason why, hundreds of years ago, cabinetmakers and joiners switched to frame and panel furniture was to circumvent timber's natural tendency to move. That's why you very rarely find extremely wide solid planks used in carcass construction. Instead you find a frame with a thinner floating panel.

 

[datadiyer]

Hi Guys,
I conveyed my concerns regarding shrinkage and splitting to the company with the following:

Hi,
I would like to purchase a few European oak panels to make some bespoke
alcove units after gratefully receiving a sample from you. However, I
have been warned that such hardwoods are prone to shrinkage and
splitting due to temperature and climate changes. Could you advise me on
this please, and maybe how your panels are kiln dried or other method.
I'm a bit of a novice here and was a bit concerned when someone raised
this with me on one of the DIY forums.
Many Thanks,
====================================================
I received this reply from the supplier (Should this allay my fears of using these solid wood panels for my alcove units?, Kind Regards, Data):

When using any unfinished wood they are prone to moving slightly but
only if you don't use them properly,
Most of the panels are shrink wrapped separately which helps keep the
moisture out.

If you're not using the boards straight away the best thing to do is
keep them wrapped up until you need to use them,
They must be kept flat not standing up otherwise they'll warp or split
which then could be un-usable.

Keep away from any heating materials i.e. heaters/radiators and water.

You will need to finish the products with either oil, wax or lacquer
either one would be suitable depends on the finish
You'd like on the panels and also what they're being used for. You can
finish the products before using or after when you've assembled the
finished product,
Applying a finish to the material stops any moisture getting into the
board which can cause it to warp or split.

We supply a one coat wonder which a lot of people prefer due to it being
resistant and less time consuming,
It is an oil which is supplied in a natural matte finish.

 

[Harbourwoodwork]

This a mixture of truth and ass covering,but mainly sounds OK but does not specify quarter sawn or rift sawn ,I hope that pleases jand k