Morning all

Dunno. It must have been more than 30 years ago. Maybe he had to report any signs of electricity being used in a house with no supply. Perhaps others on here will know. What if they put a 3 pin plug on both ends of the cable and plugged it into a socket - would that liven up the whole house?
 
Sponsored Links
Dunno. It must have been more than 30 years ago. Maybe he had to report any signs of electricity being used in a house with no supply. Perhaps others on here will know. What if they put a 3 pin plug on both ends of the cable and plugged it into a socket - would that liven up the whole house?
Well, yes, a "widow maker" would 'liven up the whole house', to the extent (assuming 13A plugs) that a 13A fuse would allow.

... but, again, dangerous thought that would have been (if/when the lead was not plugged in at both ends), I'm not sure why it should have been of any concern to LEB - whose interest really stopped at the meter (or, indeed, essentially at the cutout if they have removed the fuse!).

Kind Regards, John
 
I have run a cable from my house to neighbours when they lost supply to run their freezer, the supply was lost due to an error with a DNO worker who when trying to restore supply to one house ended up cutting the supply to another.

We are talking about 25 years ago at least, and can't remember exactly what went on. However I can see why neighbours would help each other out.
 
... but, again, dangerous thought that would have been (if/when the lead was not plugged in at both ends), I'm not sure why it should have been of any concern to LEB - whose interest really stopped at the meter (or, indeed, essentially at the cutout if they have removed the fuse!).

Were they to plug in the plug to plug, back to back extension at both ends, then that would make the cutout live at both sides, assuming LEB had taken their fuse out.

Assuming instead they had cut the supply cable, that would make what should be the dead end of the cable - live. Perhaps that was the reason for the concerns?
 
Sponsored Links
I have run a cable from my house to neighbours when they lost supply to run their freezer,... can't remember exactly what went on. However I can see why neighbours would help each other out.
Sure, I'm sure that many of us have done that (or been on the receiving end of it) over the years - and, as I said, I don't see why suppliers should have any problem with it - so long as the electricity is being paid for, they don't care "where it goes"!

Kind Regards, John
 
Were they to plug in the plug to plug, back to back extension at both ends, then that would make the cutout live at both sides, assuming LEB had taken their fuse out.
That's true - although that, in itself, would not be much of an issue. However, if they had replaced their fuse whilst it was in that state, there would certainly have been a (potentially dangerous) 'problem' IF the two houses had been on different phases!
Assuming instead they had cut the supply cable, that would make what should be the dead end of the cable - live. Perhaps that was the reason for the concerns?
I'm not sure what supply cable, or what "concerns" you are referring to. We are not talking about what did happen but, rather, a hypothetical suggestion of what could have been done (and which could be 're-done' the moment the LEB 'inspector' walked out of the door!).

Kind regards, John
 
A shock between two phases is obviously much worse than a shock from a single phase, so it was historically discouraged (I don't think it was ever outright forbidden, though it did at one time require warning notices) to have two single phase appliances served from different phases close together.

The thing is though, for a dangerous voltage to appear more than momentarily on the case of an appliance designed to modern standards should require a "double fault" scenario, so a phase to phase shock from the cases of two separate appliances would require a "quadruple fault" scenario. I think there has been a realization that is not something that is worth worrying about.

The bigger worry IMO with running an extension lead into another property is that the earth of the extension lead breaches the "equipotential zone" of the property. Just how much of a risk that is depends very much on the situation.
 
A shock between two phases is obviously much worse than a shock from a single phase ...
That was presumably the thinking behind the regulations of old. However, as you go on to say, the passage of time has resulted in a realisation that the probability of a phase-to-phase shock occurring due to two sockets/whatever on different phases being in close proximity is incredibly small.

Furthermore, I'm not sure that it is necessarily all that "obvious" that a between-phases shock is usually "much worse than a shock from a single phase". There would only be a major difference if, unusually, there was a (relatively) 'very high' impedance path through the victim - under usual circumstances, 230V is plenty high enough to kill, and nothing is really 'much worse' than dead :)
The bigger worry IMO with running an extension lead into another property is that the earth of the extension lead breaches the "equipotential zone" of the property.
Indeed, that point has already been made by Adrian - but, as I wrote to him in response, the risks is not all that much different/greater than is the case when one runs an extension lead into one's own garden (particularly with a TN-C-S supply), and the (theoretical, and not zero) risk is very low in either case. As I recently wrote to eric, many of us have, at times, run an extension lead into an adjacent property, and I doubt that any of us have come to any harm as a result.

Kind Regards, John
 
Daughter lost supply to her house following cable broken under road on Christmas eve a couple of years ago. DNO ran a supply from next doors isolator in the garage to my daughters for at least a week.
 
Sure, I'm sure that many of us have done that (or been on the receiving end of it) over the years - and, as I said, I don't see why suppliers should have any problem with it - so long as the electricity is being paid for, they don't care "where it goes"!

Kind Regards, John
Technically one has to be licensed to export electricity (or any other utility) to another property. In practice of course no one would give a flying fig unless it caused some sort of problem.
During a power outage several years back I ran leads to 4 neighbours to keep essentials going & UKPN knocked on the door to find out where I was getting the power from as according totheir records mine shoud have been off.
 
Technically one has to be licensed to export electricity (or any other utility) to another property. In practice of course no one would give a flying fig unless it caused some sort of problem.
Quite. As I said, in practice the supplier is not going to care provided that the commodity is being paid for. Provided one is talking about a metered supply, even if one supply were being totally 'shared' between two properties, all the supplier would miss out on would be the 'standing charge' for one of the properties - and even that, in theory, should be no greater than the cost of providing/maintaining the service to the second property (would be zero if they had no supply).

As you imply, the legal situation might technically differ from that, but no-one is going to care!

Kind Regards, John
 
I completely failed to find any regulations which says only one phase per room.
Sure they said something about keeping outlets on different phases at arm's length, then they said you could have different phases as long as there was warning label, then they said you can have 2 phases close as long as there is a barrier between them.
 
Sure they said something about keeping outlets on different phases at arm's length, then they said you could have different phases as long as there was warning label, then they said you can have 2 phases close as long as there is a barrier between them.
So I understand, but I think it's true to say that all such requirements/regulations are now "long gone", isn't it?

I've always been somewhat intrigued, and a little concerned, by the labelling requirements. If I recall correctly, prior to the most recent change, ther requirement was for a warning label on an enclosure if it contained conductors with more than a nominal 230V between conductors, or between any conductor and earth - but that the warning label is now only required if any conductor has a nominal voltage >230V above earth (i.e. warning no longer required for standard 400/230V 3-phase). Is that all correct?

In either case, I've always been 'a little concerned' since the implication almost seems to be that one does not need to take as much care if the PDs one may encounter are 'only' 230V :)

Kind Regards, John
 
So I understand, but I think it's true to say that all such requirements/regulations are now "long gone", isn't it?

I've always been somewhat intrigued, and a little concerned, by the labelling requirements. If I recall correctly, prior to the most recent change, ther requirement was for a warning label on an enclosure if it contained conductors with more than a nominal 230V between conductors, or between any conductor and earth - but that the warning label is now only required if any conductor has a nominal voltage >230V above earth (i.e. warning no longer required for standard 400/230V 3-phase). Is that all correct?

In either case, I've always been 'a little concerned' since the implication almost seems to be that one does not need to take as much care if the PDs one may encounter are 'only' 230V :)

Kind Regards, John
Don't know about the BBB, but the BGB states, as you mention:

514.10.1 Every item of equipment or enclosure within which a nominal voltage exceeding 230V to earth.......

Now that is not > than 230 to earth in a SP installation, but contact is possible between line voltage and earth

in a 3P install.
 
Don't know about the BBB, but the BGB states, as you mention:
514.10.1 Every item of equipment or enclosure within which a nominal voltage exceeding 230V to earth.......
Now that is not > than 230 to earth in a SP installation, but contact is possible between line voltage and earth in a 3P install.
The nominal line-earth PD in a 3-phase installation will obviously only be 230V.

It looks as if it may have been longer ago than I thought, but I'm pretty sure that it once said "voltage between conductors or to earth". If that had not been the case, there presumably would never have been a need for labels like...

upload_2022-1-20_13-39-52.png
upload_2022-1-20_13-42-8.png


??

Kind Regards, John
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top