Musings on the futility of Life, the Universe, and the term "Low Voltage"

[EFLImpudence]

As for voltage ("what it actually means"), I don't think we ever saw people being 'corrected' for using an inappropriate word to refer to 230V.

If you mean 'mains', I think some people have been corrected for using it incorrectly - or inappropriately.

We did see an awful lot of people being 'corrected' (or worse) for describing 12V as "Low Voltage" but, as we now know, they were actually using the term 'correctly'

They may have been correct but I don't think they were using the term correctly.

 

[JohnW2]

They may have been correct but I don't think they were using the term correctly.

I'm not sure I understand that. In what sense can it be incorrect to use the correct term? Inadequate, yes, but I can't see 'incorrect' ....

I certainly agree that none of these terms are, in themselves, adequate. Even with the BS7671 definition, it is meaningless to ask for an 'Low Voltage bulb/lamp' (since it could theoretically be anything from 50V to 1000V), and even 'ELV' encompasses a wide range of voltages. We could 'assume' that LV meant 230V and that ELV meant 12V, and would nearly always be right, but occasionally we would be wrong.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

I'm not sure I understand that. In what sense can it be incorrect to use the correct term? Inadequate, yes, but I can't see 'incorrect' ....

They are using it incorrectly because they don't understand what it really means and includes.

I certainly agree that none of these terms are, in themselves, adequate.

Exactly.

Even with the BS7671 definition, it is meaningless to ask for an 'Low Voltage bulb/lamp' (since it could theoretically be anything from 50V to 1000V),

Surely 1V to 1000V now.

and even 'ELV' encompasses a wide range of voltages.

Exactly again.

We could 'assume' that LV meant 230V and that ELV meant 12V, and would nearly always be right, but occasionally we would be wrong.

Yes, so the term is being used incorrectly for the purpose in question.


As I said, the term LV is used by people on here simply because that is what is what the manufacturer has put on the lamp packet.
This is technically correct but totally meaningless and as the IEC does have a definition of ELV surely this should have been used although, even that, would not show the lamp is suitable.
Therefore neither is the correct term to use.

 

[JohnW2]

Surely 1V to 1000V now.

I wrote (and you quoted) "Even with the BS7671 definition ...."

Yes, so the term is being used incorrectly for the purpose in question.

I would say correct, but inadequate. I could walk into a showroom and say that I wanted to buy 'a car'. That would be totally correct, but not adequate.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

I wrote (and you quoted) "Even with the BS7671 definition ...."

Ah. Beg pardon.

 

[Risteard]

Do you want to rephrase your question because, as you can see, 240 volt mains is low voltage?

If you want to correct people's terminology then it would be useful for you to realise that Uo is actually 230V and not the mythical "240V" you refer to.

 

[333rocky333]

Yes, it's very odd, and I think a shock to all of us. Do you regard it as a 'mistake'?

The definition of LV is, in fact, hardly a definition. Not only does it not have a lower bound, but it goes no further than saying that the upper bound (for AC) is 'usually' 1000V. What sort of definition is that?

Kind Regards, John

Would that be because High voltage can be less than 1000v in the regs

You pointed out to me last year that the IEC had no LV lower limit
https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/xmas-lights-rcd-and-timer.469901/page-2#post-3764692

 

[winston1]

If you want to correct people's terminology then it would be useful for you to realise that Uo is actually 230V and not the mythical "240V" you refer to.

In NI yes, but mainland UK no. Have you ever measured it?

 

[winston1]

Could that be the fault of the manufacturers who label only 12V lights as low voltage? Why did that start?

Because incompetent "Trading Standards" did not jump on it when they should have done.

 

[JohnW2]

Would that be because High voltage can be less than 1000v in the regs

I don't think so. My point was that, whilst BS7671 is specific about the upper limit of LV (1000V AC), the IEC definition only says "generally 1000V", which is rather odd for a 'definition'.

You pointed out to me last year that the IEC had no LV lower limit https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/xmas-lights-rcd-and-timer.469901/page-2#post-3764692

So I did - I must be getting very forgetful in my old age!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

And myself, I'll admit. I've had a lot of dealing with the so-called "Low Voltage Directive", which does start at 50V, and I would also have thought the definition of LV excluded ELV.

I'm clearly getting very forgetful in my old age. As rocky has just pointed out, I reported this absence of a lower limit to the IEC definition of LV back in last November, and you responded by mentioning the LV Directive again back then ....

This is interesting. I've just noticed the definition of "Low Voltage" in the IEC 'dictionary;: .................... No mention of a lower limt - so maybe 12V is "Low Voltage" after all

Kind Rigards, John

Kind Regards, John

 

[stillp]

There are, I'm told, two signs of approaching senility. One is loss of memory and the other one is... ummm... I forget.

 

[JohnW2]

There are, I'm told, two signs of approaching senility. One is loss of memory and the other one is... ummm... I forget.

Quite so!

If I may pry, am I right in suspecting that you had also forgotten that I raised/reported this point back in November?!

The odd thing is that I don't think we can be the only ones to have forgotten, since I'm sure that a significant number of people have been 'corrected' for calling 12V "low voltage" in the last 8 months!

Kind Regards, John

 

[333rocky333]

John I noticed your post about the ladder, you be carefull up there

 

[JohnW2]

John I noticed your post about the ladder, you be carefull up there

Thanks. It is a very long way up, but I'm being very careful, and the ladder is secured in all sorts of ways. I've been rained off ladder climbing today! I'l try to find a photo to post, if you're interested!

Kind Regards, John